From: krk AT cygnus DOT com (Kim Knuttila) Subject: Re: Cygnus Cygwin32 Press Release 1/21/97 14 Feb 1997 15:10:19 -0800 Approved: cygnus DOT gnu-win32 AT cygnus DOT com Distribution: cygnus Message-ID: <199702140747.XAA23287.cygnus.gnu-win32@rtl.cygnus.com> Reply-To: krk AT cygnus DOT com Original-To: jqb AT netcom DOT com Original-CC: noer AT cygnus DOT com, gnu-win32 AT cygnus DOT com In-reply-to: <3303A86C.5122@netcom.com> (message from Jim Balter on Thu, 13 Feb 1997 15: 49:00 -0800) Original-Sender: owner-gnu-win32 AT cygnus DOT com Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 15:49:00 -0800 From: Jim Balter Organization: JQB Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: gnu-win32 AT cygnus DOT com References: <199702130832 DOT AAA14135 AT rtl DOT cygnus DOT com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-gnu-win32 AT cygnus DOT com Precedence: bulk Geoffrey Noer wrote: > For the record, before we accept any significant changes to the library, we > have to get a form which assigns the copyright ownership to Cygnus. If I > remember correctly, it leaves the writer with quite a few rights with > respect to always being able to use the code for their own purposes, but > guarantees that Cygnus can modify it and won't be sued for using it. > Since Cygnus becomes the owner of the code, we can and will sell it under a > proprietary license. (Let me know if you want a copy). Yes, I'd like a copy. > If you cannot stand the thought of Cygnus making money from companies > who want to use the library in non-free software, you are always free to > maintain and distribute your own version of the GPL'd sources but I hope > you will choose to contribute the changes. The issue is that Cygnus and their customers are the *only* ones who can use my patches in a proprietary fashion. I am reluctant to give up my ownership under those circumstances. Don't do it then. (No, I'm not kidding.) At the very least, you shouldn't if the scale of your contribution is commercially interesting in its own right. You certainly want to make sure that your contribution is meeting some objective of yours, whether it's commercial or whatever. > Certainly much of the code could use some rewriting. Certainly there's > still a lot of work to be done with respect to completeness. If marketing > folks are right and Cygnus makes money off the library, we engineers will > be able to spend more time on making things better. I just want to point out that this turns Cygnus into a pretty ordinary commercial developer. "pretty ordinary" is a relative thing. I've worked for a couple of "pretty ordinary" ones, and this one ain't much like 'em. It's partly why I'm here. Check the ChangeLog entries (my favorite -- gcc/g++/gdb of course :-). Look for companies that have contributed more than Cygnus. Mail their names to me. (or publish them here. I don't care which) And we're just getting started. Yeh, I can't tell all, but the plans are pretty cool, and the gpl'd software generated will be pretty cool too. (Aside: gcc/gdb hackers send your resume's in!) My bet is there isn't another company on the _planet_ that contributes the way we do. I'm starting to think "pretty ordinary" is badge material... In the ideal "free software" world, all software is free and programmers can share their tools. In the real world, the FSF realized that many companies are not willing to make their software free, so for programmers to be able to use others' tools, they had to be given the right (under the LGPL) to use those tools to build proprietary software. Cygnus is now saying that, to use their tools (to build proprietary software, which is what most programmers do for a living), they must pay Cygnus to do so. Cygnus is now saying that because Cygnus policy is now driven by "marketing folks". A fact of life, perhaps, but a deviation from the FSF's premise and Cygnus' origins. Yep. One way or another, we all march to marketing folks. Sometimes it's official. Sometimes it's implied. Cygnus has _always_ marched to marketing folks of one kind or another. So what. Make no mistake about it. Cygnus is a commercial enterprise. We are out to make money on this stuff. We have to pay the rent on our building. We have to pay programmer salaries, and all the other stuff of commerce. And we will contribute more to free software than anyone. Cygnus will continue to direct a substantial amount of money and effort into the production of gpl'd software. The targetted products include the compiler tools family (near and dear to my heart), including gcc, g++, gdb, cygwin32, and others. (For what it's worth, our marketing people are pretty cool too. Also a nice change, but we shouldn't tell 'em :-) (Somehow, I just know I'm gonna hate myself for wading into this one...) --krk. -- Kim Knuttila | Speaking for himself as always. Cygnus Solutions | Woof. - For help on using this list, send a message to "gnu-win32-request AT cygnus DOT com" with one line of text: "help".