Mail Archives: opendos/2003/09/27/04:31:15
On 27 Sep 2003 at 15:55, DONALD PEDDER wrote:
> What options? All I want to know is if there's a way to turn on
> "confirm before overwrite" with copy or xcopy. As far as I can gather,
> there isn't. erase and delete have eraq and delq versions, but no such
> thing exists for copy/xcopy, and the option to enable it has been
> crippled.
With copy, and most version of command.com the
answer is no. With xcopy, it depends on the version
of the OS.
With 4dos, you just use copy /r [file list]
> > Most *customers* (in terms of dollars spent) for DR-DOS and
> > other command line interpreters these days (and from the
> > almost the beginning) are *commercial* users. They *do* need
> > that compatability.
>
> As I keep saying, that's a reason for having a default, NOT a reason to
> cripple being able to CHANGE the default ("default" usually means you have
> several options, and it's the one you'll get if you don't specify
> otherwise - but in this case there AREN'T any options, as the option to
> have confirm has been permanently switched off. not only has no-confirm
> been made the default, it's been made the only choice available).
It wasn't an option *at all*. Heck, even though
"copy /?" lists it as an "ignored option" in DR-DOS
7.03, HELP.BAT doesn't list it at all under the
options for copy.
> > Sorry, but back when "personal" users where the majority, DOS didn't
> > exist.
>
> Sorry, but there were still only a handful of personal users (compared
> to today's numbers) BEFORE DOS/Windows. It was because of Evil Bill that
> they have proliferated so much (the one thing that you could grudgingly
> say he did that was good). It was DOS/Windows that "put a personal
> computer in every home".
I date back that far. My first programming
experience was on an IBM 360.
But as I said, back when personal use was the
majority, DOS (and the IBM PC) didn't exist.
Heck, I'm not sure personal use was a majority by
the time CP/M version 2 came out.
It *definitely* wasn't by the time Visicalc got
Apples into the office.
> > And command.com was an *example* command processor shell. It
> > wasn't expected that it'd be more than a stopgap when it was written.
> > And by the time it was clear that it had become a standard,
> > compatability *had* to be maintained.
>
> Again, compatability can be maintained by having it switched off by
> default, but that's no reason to dis-able it from being switched on when
> desired.
Again, it's not a matter of "switched off". It's a
matter of the option *not existing*.
> Compatability doesn't demand it be permanently
> disabled (only Bill trying to get people to stop
> using DOS dictates things getting permanently
> disabled - and in trying to get people away from
> MS, DR-DOS should be as flexible as possible to
> enhance it's appeal).
Again, you are *assuming* that the intended market
is home use. It isn't. It's embedded systems and
"legacy" business and manufacturing systems. Where
the applications are set up by pros and the users
may not even know that DOS is inside the box.
> > That's what backups are for.
>
> Backups don't always work (I have encountered this MANY times in my
> career - that just when a backup was needed for a restore, it was found
> that the backups hadn't been working properly. I have found this with both
> ISP's and companies I've worked for. Backups are just ONE ay to protect
> against accidents - confirm before over-write is another).
True enough. But that's why my backup routines went
like this:
Backup to tape
Verify backups
And similar steps when using other backup media. The
*lack* of a decent file compare with Windows is a
major defect.
> > Except that it was *never* aimed at personal users.
>
> So, the Bill Gates/IBM personal computer wasn't aimed at personal
> users? Never?
The IBM PC was designed as an "under the table"
project by some IBM engineers. When Visicalc got the
Apple into businesses in a big way, IBM management
started looking for a "personal computer" that could
be sold to both buisiness and home, but they
expected the real money to be business users.
They grabbed the PC design because they could get it
*then*.
They wanted CP/M, but when Gary Kildall didn't drop
everything to talk with their people about
licensing, they asksed Microsoft if they had an OS
that was CP/M compatible and would run on the PC.
Gates said yes, and turned around and bought the
rights to 86-DOS from Seattle Computing without
telling them that he was going to be selling it to a
major customer.
PC-DOS 1.0 was *not* CP/M compatible except in the
most general way. CP/M 86 was, but it was too late
for it to be the default OS.
>
> > > One which was put there because people DO forget
> > > things, and DO make typo's. Are we all expected to be Automatons now?
> > > I'm sorry - I know more about computers than most people I know (and I
> > > work in IT), but I still have human flaws. I still forget things and
> > > make typo's.
> >
> > It's not a "common option" in *any* version of command.com.
>
> This is the first time I've encountered it NOT being there. I'm even
> sure it was there in older versions of DR-DOS (why would there be a switch
> there to switch off something that was never enabled to begin with?). I
> haven't used MS-DOS recently, but I'm sure it was still prompting before
> overwrite last time I did (it may have been crippled since then, as part
> of Bill's plan to get rid of it, just like wild-cards and other stuff got
> crippled).
I just checked a DOS reference manual (that covered
versions from 1.0 on up thru 3.3) and the *only*
options for copy were /A, /B and /V.
I checked the PC-DOS 4.01 and MS-DOS 5.01 manuals
and had no luck either. The Novell DOS 6.0 manual
lists /c as the switch for confirmation.
And that does work in DR-DOS 7.03. I had missed it
before because 4dos uses /C for "copy changed files
only"
Alas, since copy is built into command.com, you
can't use the batch file dodge to "force" the /c.
While COPY /? lists the /Y parameter, it's not
listed anywhere in the DR-DOS docs.
I think it was included to maintain compatability
with batch files ported from other DOS environments
(such as 4dos) where copy *does* have a /Y paramter.
--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow at krypton dot rain dot com
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