Mail Archives: opendos/2000/12/02/02:54:15
Okay, what the hello is XMS meory? Is it ENTEDED meory or just another
stupid swap em out memory? Extended memory does not swapping you are in
memory above 1MB when you use ectended memory and you are in protected mode
when using extended memory. In Task manager, you are in protected mode and
you use EXTENDED memory. There is no swapping of memory, each task is
residing in a different area of memeory above 1MB and all you do when you
swap windows or apps is to simply jump to that area of memory. Everything is
running at the same time, it is multitasking, not the crap Gates came out
with that merely swaps things around. Check out Linux sometime and see what
is really, really TRUE MULITASKING.
DV is not a true multi-tasker, it shares CPU time between applications
loaded, just like Gates' stupid WINDOZE does. When you use EXTENDED memory
in protected mode, you actually run several processes simutaneously. In
virtual 86 mode you actually have each process running jst as though each
one had it's own 8086 computer. It would be the same as running five tasks
on five IBM XTs. or PCs.
So what is XMS. And what does Task manager use. I believe it uses DPMS which
is DOS Protected Mode Services. That is what I use for multi-tasking in DOS.
That is EXTENDED memory in PROTECTED MODE. I believe it is virtual 86
protected mode that Task manager uses. There is no freeking memory swapping
with Task manager.
Desqview, on the other hand, uses stupid time consumming memory swapping
through a tiny 64K window and uses stupid EMS to do it. Each process running
is swapped into and out of conventional memory.
Task Manager DOES NOT do this.
Don't get me wrong, I know that peole have an extremely hard time
understanding the various memory areas and memory managers used and they can
sit down with a comprehensive book about it and read the book half a dozen
times and still not know what is going on with memory in the X86 line of
CPUs. I never will figure out why IBM chose the X86 rather than the MC68000
family or the Z8000 family or the MOS65000 family. They chose the worst
possible CPU when they designed the PC after already having failed twice to
enter the PC market. As you can clearly see IBM has a GREAT track record!!!!
I do not think we are talking about the same thing here. There is absolutely
no swapping of memory with Task Manager. (except of course maybe some video
memory on your video card and other such things.)
But I would like to know just what XMS memory is. I thought it was extended
memory, period. EXTENDED, PERIOD. If it is not EXTENDED memory then we are
deffinitely not talking about the same thing. I am talking about DPMS- DOS
PROTECTED MEMORY SERVICE, which is used with Task Manager. There is no
stupid memory swapping involved.
Try Linux sometime and you will not even mention things like EMS, XMS, DPMS,
DPMI,VCPI and a ton of other crap. Someone in this list said that DOSLinux
uses ext2 file system to work. I just checked the site out yesterday, it is
now called Loop Linux and IT DOES NOT have to use ext2fs, it still will run
on top of a 16 bit FAT or a 32 bit FAT. You can install it on your current
system and only takes about 25MB of drive space and 8 to 16 MB of swap space
if you do not have 32MB of RAM. It does need a 386 and at least 8MB RAM.
Check it out and you will find out what true multi-tasking is. It may even
be able to run on an NTFS or HPFS file system. I'll give the new one a try
one of these days. The old version I use is adequate for me at this time.
Since I am currently stuck with using IE.
See end of message for a comment you make later in your message.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Arkady V.Belousov" <ark AT belous DOT munic DOT msk DOT su>
To: <opendos AT delorie DOT com>
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 8:57 AM
Subject: Re: BASIC & EMS (was: Optimizing CONFIG.SYS...)
> X-Comment-To: Patrick Moran
>
> Hi!
>
> 29-ξΟΡ-2000 19:19 pmoran22 AT yahoo DOT com (Patrick Moran) wrote to
> <opendos AT delorie DOT com>:
>
> >> W.R.T. EMS, I recall reading somewhere that, rather than being
> >> "Extremely inefficient", EMS is actually more efficient than XMS
> >> (when based on either real hardware or the 386's magic tricks).
> >> There were also "EMS simulator" software (286 stuff?), which
> >> had to copy data to/from the page frame, hence these were
> >> indeed inefficient - perhaps you were thinking of these?
> PM> That could be or maybe I am thinking of the way MS crap for DOS 5 did
it.
> PM> You first had to have Extended memory then that is converted to EMS
memory.
>
> Not necessary. For example, QEMM (unlike EMM386) gives access to all
> extended memory through both EMS and XMS API simultaneously.
>
> PM> However, no matter how it is done, you have a tiny little 64K window
of
> PM> memory to shove stuff through from expanded memory to conventional
memory
> PM> and conventional memory to expanded memory. When you use something
like
>
> Not necessary. You can work with data directly in EMS pages (four 16K
> pages in 64K EMS frame).
>
> PM> Desqview and you have a large program over 500k in size and have to
swap
> PM> portions of it out 64k at a time in 16k chunks.
>
> Even in this case using EMS can be faster than XMS: for EMS you use
> plain "MOV CX,8000h/REP MOVSW" eight times+eight times EMS pages
remapping,
> with XMS you use block copying with (possible) much higher overhead for
> copy.
>
> PM> XMS. When a program is run in protected mode, there is no swapping, it
> PM> operates in exntended memory as originally designed to do. In virtual
86
>
> Hm. Don't mix XMS and protected mode operation.
>
> PM> mode you can actually have a full 8086 computers installed many times
and
> PM> each can share entended memory. This is what the DRDOS Task manger
does. It
> PM> does not use EMS like Desqview and other so-called multitaskers do via
EMS
> PM> memory.
>
> Again: don't mix memory manager itself and XMS/EMS specifications.
>
> PM> I am not positive what XMS memory is, it is not talked about in "DOS
Beyond
> PM> 640K" book. I do remember something about QEMM converting Extended
memory to
> PM> EMS then converting EMS memory back for use as Extended memory, which
is
> PM> really, really stupid. Why not just use Extended memory directly like
DPMS
> PM> does?????
>
> ? You something muddle. QEMM doesn't "convert" anything. They simply
> gives access to extended memory through EMS and/or through XMS API.
Through is the KEYWORD! I should have said through and not converted, but it
is the same when all the ashes land. It is still crap.
Pat
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