To:	opendos AT delorie DOT com
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2000 18:28:48 -0800
Subject:	Re: Using Loader with DRDOS and WIN95
Message-ID:	<20000123.182930.-4055313.1.domanspc@juno.com>
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From:	robert w moss <domanspc AT juno DOT com>
Reply-To:	opendos AT delorie DOT com

What we are dealing with here is the compatibility of DRDOS with a
WIN95 operating system on the same computer.  How compatible is DRDOS
with 32bit API and does it work in a Long Filename environment.  Most
likely that is one of the causes for not being able to set up LOADER.

The last I heard (and my experience with MS/PC/and especially DRDOS)
DOS will not even see WIN95 on the computer and will cause serious
problems,
the least of which is to lock-up the computer...see my comments below..

*Any of the old DRDOS/Caldera guys feel free to  clarify?*
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Bob 'DOMAN' Moss 
*"Remember, if you don't have chocolate*
* you don't have food"!!!!.............*
========================================
On Sat, 22 Jan 2000 00:48:11 -0500 Bruce Morgen <editor AT juno DOT com> writes:
> 
> 
> On Fri, 21 Jan 2000 16:38:23 -0800 robert w moss <domanspc AT juno DOT com> 
> writes:
> 
> [snip]
>  
> >         ie; WIN95 wants all its applications on drive C. 
> 
> This doesn't reflect my  experience at all -- my son's  PC boots
Win95's DOS 7 from 
> drive C: 

 Sorry to say that there are only two 'MSDOS' files on a WIN95 computer.
They are
    msdos.sys and io.sys and they are used to boot the computer and pass
over the 
   control of the computer to the WIN32 Application Programming Interface
(API). 

This  MSDOS 7 is a DOS Emulator sysytem  built up of  32bit  API versions
of the 
old DOS files. These files can be found in \Windows\Command and are not
DOS.
You can download the old DOS files from the MS download site but they
don't 
work well in a DOS window because they are not written to comply with
32bit API.
Thats why DRDOS has problems, and will continue to do so, until it is
written to
be compatible with the 32bit API's and FAT32 and has long file name
recognition 
in Command.Com the way 4DOS does. They have a version made for WIN95 but 
I have not tried it yet..


(a BIOS limitation  that has nothing to do with  the OS) and has the
entire 
> WINDOWS directory tree  happily ensconced on drive E:.  

I have only seen that on some HP or Compaq systems where they run a
propritary
version of a pc-compatible. I tried it with mine and Had all sorts of
trouble. MS
designed the FAT32 so that one large hard disk could store everything
without
loosing large amounts of hard disk space like we do with DOS and
WIN31/311
systems and large drive/large partitions. On a FAT32 system clusters are
only 
8k up to 8GB versus 64k on a 2048-4096MB FAT16 system, and most of the
post 
1995 BIOS let you use up to 5GB hard drives and all the extraspace is
available
for use with the large files used in windows environment . Now, almost
all the
Windows applications are setup to go on drive c: , although they do let
you 
choose expert  install and put the program anywhere you choose and even
use
a different folder name (this can really confuse the issue, especially if
you take 
your computer to a shop to be worked on).  All of the stuff I put in
drive D:/E:/F:
caused problems. I installed Corel Perfect office, MS Office, MS Works,
Serif PagePlus, Print Master Gold, Norton Utilities, among  others, just
so I could 
install AOL, Nescape, and IE5 on C:.  I had to have 500MG free just to
install IE5.  
After I got all this stuff on the computer I started having problems with
files 
trying to load off C: when I had put them on D:/E: and scandisk started
finding 
large blocks of files lost in limbo land, so I had to uninstall
everything and start
over. Half of the stuff would not un-install properly and I had to hand
massage the 
registry. I have just finished spending two weeks getting enough of the
garbage 
out of the Registry so I can begin re-installing everthing without
getting calls for the
loading of files that are not on the computer anymore, or not on drive c:
because 
I put the programs on another drive. At least I have Partition Magic to
change the 
size of my drives so I can have one large C: drive.

>The location of the various  crucial Win95 directory  hierarchies is
contained 
>in  the hidden Msdos.sys  text  file. 

  Heres a copy of the hidden msdos.sys text file as I extracted it from
my WIN95 root
 Directory:

;FORMAT
[Paths]
WinDir=C:\WINDOWS
WinBootDir=C:\WINDOWS
HostWinBootDrv=C

[Options]
BootMulti=1
BootGUI=1
Network=0
;
;The following lines are required for compatibility with other programs.
;Do not remove them (MSDOS.SYS needs to be >1024 bytes).
;xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxa

all I see here is the same thing they had in Win31/311. The computer is
directed to
the Windows directory and told to boot in multiuser and GUI mode.

>in the root directory of drive C:, and they can be  on any logical drive

> accessible to DOS 7, that  is, any logical drive that  doesn't require
the GUI's 
> driver code for access.
> >
> [snip]
> 
> 

WIN98 is completely DOS free and BILL GATES brags about that all the
time.
DOS programs must be handled very carefully to run on these systems as
the
DOS programmers normally setup the programs to take over the entire
computer
and when they do they over-write windows code and crash the system.  
WIN95/98 attempts to load DOS programs in a virtual computer mode where 
they are not aware of windows and operate in their own space, but that
frequently
not enough and most WIN95/98 users do not attempt to use DOS (dinosaur)
stuff because they are tired of rebuilding the computer and also there
are lots of
wimpy windows applications/games which use the installed windows librarys
to run without crashing.

Maybe you can see I don't really like Windoze. But I have to use it at
work
and all my children and grandchildren need it for school work, so I have
it.
Glad to hear that you have never had a problem with your son's computer. 

May your good luck follow you into the future!
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