Mail Archives: opendos/1999/06/12/06:13:50
Matthias Paul <PAUL-MA AT reze-1 DOT rz DOT rwth-aachen DOT de> wrote on Wed, 09 Jun 1999:
On Mon, 07 Jun 1999 Utz Zarwell wrote:
>Anyway, running
>a quick test I too could reproduce the phenomenon on an AMD486DX40
>(SIS 461 chipset, VESA-Local bus, AMI-BIOS 1993 I5 R1.3, 20 Mb RAM)
>running DR-DOS 7.03 and temporarily loading MS-DOS 6.22 HIMEM.SYS...
>So, it appears not to be CPU or chipset specific at all.
Agree. Others on the list say similar.
I showed this with 2 different systems already.
>IMHO parts of your configuration are rather unusual.
>Still, a number of comments and questions might help to better
>clarify your setup in general:
There is no need to do so. :-)
Most of the testing of the _abnormality_ was done before
and without ALL suspicious _drivers_ of course.
The XMS behavior was shown with both systems regardless
of the customized ( :-) ) configurations.
The following cutting only showed the state _before_ by
using a stable all days config on the laptop with the UMC chipset.
satisfying your curiosity..
>>ok, at first for DR-OpenDOS 7.02 with PC DOS 7 HIMEM.SYS
>>[...]
>>DEVICE=C:\START\DOA20.EXE /C /D /Q
>>DEVICE=C:\START\UEBDA.SYS /S=4C /F
>
>Are these self-written drivers for A20 control and moving the
>Extended BIOS data area? Selfwritten?
Hhm, .. aahhmm, ... indeed.
But it doesn´t touch our problem.
>>DEVICE=C:\START\HIMEM.SYS /V /FASTA20
>>DEVICE=C:\DOS\DPMS.EXE
>
>Is this the PC DOS DPMS driver? It has an unusual memory footprint of
>1568 bytes quite similar to very old Novell DPMS drivers, which also
>found their way into PC DOS due to Stacker. Use the DR-DOS 7.02+ DPMS
>driver instead, it should have a smaller footprint of only 944 byte
>on your machine.
ver 1.44 Caldera (1997).
I have to say I don´t know exactly the version of DR-DOS 7.02+ DMPS anymore.
Doesn´t matter anyhow for the subject.
But the thing with the different footprint depends on whether DPMS is
running under EMM386 (DPMI/VCPI) or XMS.
>Since you can't use VLADIVAR multitasking without
>EMM386, you could also try to use Helix's/Network Associates' CLOAKING
>driver instead of DPMS, also provides a "Cloaked DPMS server" (this
>is undocumented) at a (high loadable) memory footprint of ca. 1 Kb.
>CLOAKING 2.01 (1994) shipped for example with Logitech MouseWare 6.50
>and 6.60, and even current issues of MouseWare 8.2x utilize it to run
>the mouse driver in Protected Mode, thereby reducing the visible
>mouse driver footprint downto ca. 1 Kb (instead of 27 Kb otherwise).
>This even outperforms CTMOUSE/DRMOUSE...
Where to get? :-)
And how save is the use of CLOAKING?
>>DEVICE=C:\START\UKEY.SYS /DATEI=C:\START\LEBOOK.BIN
>Vobis LeBook? Is this a laptop keyboard driver, or a key stuffing
>tool? It has an invalid device driver name "aeoeueAEOEUE(" (maybe to save
>some bytes), but on the other hand this should not cause any problems.
Vobis LeBook. (None laptop) keyboard driver. Doesn´t cause probs.
>But where does the other block driver come from?
>24B:0000 E: B0h, 176 DEVICE = installed device
>
>I can't find a line loading something like DRIVER.SYS or another RAM
>disk... Or is this a result of DOA20.EXE?!?
Yeah, the boy has found one big point ! ;-)
But you explained it yourself already some lines before.
And I wonder why you did not hit the tender spot? Haven´t you seen the
_memory hole_ between 773:0h and 1124:0h ? :-)) just kidding.
STACKER
But before hitting me - it is only installed on the laptop!
I know it is definitely not a good idea, but there was no chance to avoid it.
So its not the prob.
>Since your memory configuration is rather modular, it might be
>interesting to see what happens after removing the bus master driver
>and XBDA relocator. Even if they worked, they could cause some fuzz...
Nothing else. When testing/installing I avoid them.
>Your dummy driver has proven to be quite useful here.
>You should try a few more configurations between /SIZE=4000..8000
>to see how HIMEM.SYS strikes back when DUMMYDRV.SYS reaches
>700:0000..A00:0000.
>
>Do similar things also happen when HIMEM.SYS is loaded above
>1000:0000 (e.g. by loading multiple DUMMYDRV.SYS), for example
>placing HIMEM.SYS start in between 13xx:0000..1Axx:0000?
>Seems like HIMEM.SYS tries to ensure that some part of it is loaded
>at a fixed offset short before A9A. For what reason I don't know.
It shrinks to 3168 By until somewhere at 09D0:0, then it keeps that size.
Following cutting from mem/b with various DUMMYDRV sizes.
+- Address --- Name ----- Size ------------- Type
----------------------------+
¦ 23C:0000 ¦ DOS ¦ 1B1F0h, 111.088 ¦ System
¦
¦ 24B:0000 ¦ E: ¦ B0h, 176 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver
¦
¦ 257:0000 ¦ DUMDRV & ¦ 4000h, 16.384 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver
¦
¦ 658:0000 ¦ XMSXXXX0 ¦ 4410h, 17.424 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver
¦
¦ A9A:0000 ¦ äöüÄÖÜ(' ¦ 190h, 400 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver
¦
¦ 3363:0000 ¦ -------- ¦ 6C5D0h, 443.856 ¦ FREE
¦
Dummy +1000
XMS -1000
+- Address --- Name ----- Size ------------- Type
----------------------------+
¦ 23C:0000 ¦ DOS ¦ 1B1F0h, 111.088 ¦ System
¦
¦ 24B:0000 ¦ E: ¦ B0h, 176 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver
¦
¦ 257:0000 ¦ DUMDRV & ¦ 5000h, 20.480 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver
¦
¦ 758:0000 ¦ XMSXXXX0 ¦ 3410h, 13.328 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver
¦
¦ A9A:0000 ¦ äöüÄÖÜ(' ¦ 190h, 400 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver
¦
¦ 3363:0000 ¦ -------- ¦ 6C5D0h, 443.856 ¦ FREE
¦
Dummy +1000
XMS -1000
+- Address --- Name ----- Size ------------- Type
----------------------------+
¦ 23C:0000 ¦ DOS ¦ 1B1F0h, 111.088 ¦ System
¦
¦ 24B:0000 ¦ E: ¦ B0h, 176 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver
¦
¦ 257:0000 ¦ DUMDRV & ¦ 6000h, 24.576 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver
¦
¦ 858:0000 ¦ XMSXXXX0 ¦ 2410h, 9.232 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver
¦
¦ A9A:0000 ¦ äöüÄÖÜ(' ¦ 190h, 400 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver
¦
¦ 3363:0000 ¦ -------- ¦ 6C5D0h, 443.856 ¦ FREE
¦
Dummy +1000
XMS -1000
+- Address --- Name ----- Size ------------- Type
----------------------------+
¦ 23C:0000 ¦ DOS ¦ 1B1F0h, 111.088 ¦ System
¦
¦ 24B:0000 ¦ E: ¦ B0h, 176 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver
¦
¦ 257:0000 ¦ DUMDRV & ¦ 7000h, 28.672 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver
¦
¦ 958:0000 ¦ XMSXXXX0 ¦ 1410h, 5.136 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver
¦
¦ A9A:0000 ¦ äöüÄÖÜ(' ¦ 190h, 400 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver
¦
¦ 3363:0000 ¦ -------- ¦ 6C5D0h, 443.856 ¦ FREE
¦
Dummy +400
XMS -400
+- Address --- Name ----- Size ------------- Type
----------------------------+
¦ 23C:0000 ¦ DOS ¦ 1B1F0h, 111.088 ¦ System
¦
¦ 24B:0000 ¦ E: ¦ B0h, 176 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver
¦
¦ 257:0000 ¦ DUMDRV & ¦ 7400h, 29.696 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver
¦
¦ 998:0000 ¦ XMSXXXX0 ¦ 1010h, 4.112 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver
¦
¦ A9A:0000 ¦ äöüÄÖÜ(' ¦ 190h, 400 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver
¦
¦ 3363:0000 ¦ -------- ¦ 6C5D0h, 443.856 ¦ FREE
¦
Dummy +400
XMS -400 +50
+- Address --- Name ----- Size ------------- Type
----------------------------+
¦ 23C:0000 ¦ DOS ¦ 1B240h, 111.168 ¦ System
¦
¦ 24B:0000 ¦ E: ¦ B0h, 176 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver
¦
¦ 257:0000 ¦ DUMDRV & ¦ 7800h, 30.720 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver
¦
¦ 9D8:0000 ¦ XMSXXXX0 ¦ C60h, 3.168 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver
¦
¦ A9F:0000 ¦ äöüÄÖÜ(' ¦ 190h, 400 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver
¦
¦ 3368:0000 ¦ -------- ¦ 6C580h, 443.776 ¦ FREE
¦
Dummy +200
XMS 00
+- Address --- Name ----- Size ------------- Type
----------------------------+
¦ 23C:0000 ¦ DOS ¦ 1B440h, 111.680 ¦ System
¦
¦ 24B:0000 ¦ E: ¦ B0h, 176 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver
¦
¦ 257:0000 ¦ DUMDRV & ¦ 7A00h, 31.232 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver
¦
¦ 9F8:0000 ¦ XMSXXXX0 ¦ C60h, 3.168 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver
¦
¦ ABF:0000 ¦ äöüÄÖÜ(' ¦ 190h, 400 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver
¦
¦ 3388:0000 ¦ -------- ¦ 6C380h, 443.264 ¦ FREE
¦
Dummy +200
XMS 00
+- Address --- Name ----- Size ------------- Type
----------------------------+
¦ 23C:0000 ¦ DOS ¦ 1B640h, 112.192 ¦ System
¦
¦ 24B:0000 ¦ E: ¦ B0h, 176 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver
¦
¦ 257:0000 ¦ DUMDRV & ¦ 7C00h, 31.744 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver
¦
¦ A18:0000 ¦ XMSXXXX0 ¦ C60h, 3.168 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver
¦
¦ ADF:0000 ¦ äöüÄÖÜ(' ¦ 190h, 400 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver
¦
¦ 33A8:0000 ¦ -------- ¦ 6C180h, 442.752 ¦ FREE
¦
Dummy +400
XMS 00
+- Address --- Name ----- Size ------------- Type
----------------------------+
¦ 23C:0000 ¦ DOS ¦ 1BA40h, 113.216 ¦ System
¦
¦ 24B:0000 ¦ E: ¦ B0h, 176 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver
¦
¦ 257:0000 ¦ DUMDRV & ¦ 8000h, 32.768 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver
¦
¦ A58:0000 ¦ XMSXXXX0 ¦ C60h, 3.168 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver
¦
¦ B1F:0000 ¦ äöüÄÖÜ(' ¦ 190h, 400 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver
¦
¦ 33E8:0000 ¦ -------- ¦ 6BD80h, 441.728 ¦ FREE
¦
Dummy +400
XMS 00
+- Address --- Name ----- Size ------------- Type
----------------------------+
¦ 23C:0000 ¦ DOS ¦ 1BE40h, 114.240 ¦ System
¦
¦ 24B:0000 ¦ E: ¦ B0h, 176 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver
¦
¦ 257:0000 ¦ DUMDRV & ¦ 8400h, 33.792 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver
¦
¦ A98:0000 ¦ XMSXXXX0 ¦ C60h, 3.168 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver
¦
¦ B5F:0000 ¦ äöüÄÖÜ(' ¦ 190h, 400 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver
¦
¦ 3428:0000 ¦ -------- ¦ 6B980h, 440.704 ¦ FREE
¦
Dummy +400
XMS 00
+- Address --- Name ----- Size ------------- Type
----------------------------+
¦ 23C:0000 ¦ DOS ¦ 1C240h, 115.264 ¦ System
¦
¦ 24B:0000 ¦ E: ¦ B0h, 176 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver
¦
¦ 257:0000 ¦ DUMDRV & ¦ 8800h, 34.816 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver
¦
¦ AD8:0000 ¦ XMSXXXX0 ¦ C60h, 3.168 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver
¦
¦ B9F:0000 ¦ äöüÄÖÜ(' ¦ 190h, 400 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver
¦
¦ 3468:0000 ¦ -------- ¦ 6B580h, 439.680 ¦ FREE
¦
+- Address --- Name ----- Size ------------- Type
----------------------------+
¦ 23C:0000 ¦ DOS ¦ 1FA40h, 129.600 ¦ System
¦
¦ 24B:0000 ¦ E: ¦ B0h, 176 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver
¦
¦ 257:0000 ¦ DUMDRV & ¦ C000h, 49.152 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver
¦
¦ E58:0000 ¦ XMSXXXX0 ¦ C60h, 3.168 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver
¦
¦ F1F:0000 ¦ äöüÄÖÜ(' ¦ 190h, 400 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver
¦
¦ 37E8:0000 ¦ -------- ¦ 67D80h, 425.344 ¦ FREE
¦
+- Address --- Name ----- Size ------------- Type
----------------------------+
¦ 23C:0000 ¦ DOS ¦ 21A40h, 137.792 ¦ System
¦
¦ 24B:0000 ¦ E: ¦ B0h, 176 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver
¦
¦ 257:0000 ¦ DUMDRV & ¦ E000h, 57.344 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver
¦
¦ 1058:0000 ¦ XMSXXXX0 ¦ C60h, 3.168 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver
¦
¦ 111F:0000 ¦ äöüÄÖÜ(' ¦ 190h, 400 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver
¦
¦ 39E8:0000 ¦ -------- ¦ 65D80h, 417.152 ¦ FREE
¦
>On my system a DEBUG dump showed that the memory block occupied by
>HIMEM.SYS still contains most parts of the installer, although there
>are some large areas of 00h and FFh. Same with yours? Could it be,
>that for some reason HIMEM.SYS has problems to run within Low Memory
>(first 64 Kb) due to some obscure A20 or DMA problem??? Although
>this does not appear to be hardware specific, any changes after
>fiddling with CMOS SETUP settings for A20 or chipset setup?
Not worth testing it, because at least 4 different machines showed that
behavior.
Same over 64K.
>Does the following reveal anything on your machine:
> INSTALL=c:\drdos\mem.exe /AP
> DEVICE=c:\pcdos\himem.sys
> INSTALL=c:\drdos\mem.exe /AP
No.
>Unfortunately I don't have the time to track this down myself, but
>if this problem does occur with DR-DOS 7.03 (01/1999) and did not
>occur with DR-OpenDOS 7.02 (12/1997), what about DR-DOS 7.02 (02/1998)
>and all of its various updates over 1998? After isolating the latest
>working kernel for this setup, we should step by step replace
>IBMDOS.COM by newer ones until the problem occurs or we use the
>7.03 BDOS. Then same with IBMBIO.COM.
>With this info, I might be able to isolate the kernel patch that
>apparently causes this behaviour and look for a fix.
That is definitely a good idea to get when it was introduced.
But unfortunately I don´t have all those versions.
>>Chipset made by UMC: UM8891N (Notebook), UM8886N EIDE/ISA bridge
>>If anyone out there could provide me any good info/datasheet/pointer
>>about that particular chipset (programming) really I would be happy
>>to spent that time... ;-)
>That's an offer!!! OK people, let's search for some data sheets
>(I couldn't find any of the UMC chips in INTER60, but what's the
>Intel Batman chipset's code number again?)... Anyone checked
>UMC's server already?
Intel Batman is a Mercury chipset rev 3. That one I can handle.
UMC info is much harder to obtain.
The offer remains under the condition that I get the relevant info about the
chipset
and that it is possible.
Regards,
Utz
<dh473 AT aol DOT com>
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