From:	Christopher Croughton <crough45 AT amc DOT de>
Message-Id:	<97Sep23.091014gmt+0100.11654@internet01.amc.de>
Subject:	Re: ClosedDOS???
To:	ark AT mpak DOT convey DOT ru (-= ArkanoiD =-)
Date:	Tue, 23 Sep 1997 08:14:48 +0100
Cc:	crough45 AT amc DOT de, opendos AT delorie DOT com
In-Reply-To:	<AAbRj9qeV7@mpak.convey.ru> from "-= ArkanoiD =-" at Sep 22, 97 09:36:53 pm
Mime-Version:	1.0

-= ArkanoiD =- wrote:

> > I wasn't keen on the MicroVAXen, they weren't really competitive with
> > other processors even when they came out.
> 
> That is not true (at least). Modern MicroVAXen have performance not less
> than Alpha systems of that size.

They've improved it, then.  Actually, it wasn't so much the performance as 
the performance/price ratio - DEC always were (and still are) expensive.
For instance, the DEC disk drives (4 Gb) are around DM 2000 each (the 
company I work for recently just upgraded) compared to local prices for
PC drives of around DM 500 for the same size IDE (DM 760 for 4.3 Gb SCSI).
So in terms of MIPS per buck, or for that matter storage per currency unit,
they weren't competitive.

The main reason people bought DEC by the time the MicroVAXen came out was 
the name and the fact that DEC had always been good on service and 
reliability.  If I recall, they were one of the first (if not the first)
to do all servicing at the board level - pull out the faulty board and
replace it with a new one, then let the boys in the lab bother about the
old one.  This made them very attractive for companies who wanted absolute
minimum downtime.

> > I mean, how are you expected to load the bootstrap into
> > core without switches and lights?
> 
> Hmm,my pdp-11 has 7-segment LEDs and octal keyboard on a front panel ;)

Horrible modern stuff <g>.  Give me the old one with 18 switches for
address and data, plus the three-way "Examine/Deposit" toggle switch
and the "Run/Halt" switch etc.

I bet your PDP-11 doesn't even have core, it's got this modern semiconductor
stuff <g>...

> I have a couple of pdp-11s also (an orgiginal 11/34 by DEC and a one of last
> soviet clones - SM-1425 ;)

I don't know the Soviet clones - were they as good as the DEC ones?  (I'd
like to know how they got the designs, as well - DEC used to keep the chips
used a trade secret, and at one time wouldn't publish the interface either.)

> Yes,i live in the same room and it is not big ;)

You don't need a heater, then <g>.  Although the LSI-11 series doesn't take
the power that the originals did (I first used the 11/20 and 11/40, which 
needed air conditioning)...

Chris C

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