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Mail Archives: opendos/1997/02/11/07:39:53

From: mharris AT blackwidow DOT saultc DOT on DOT ca
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 07:13:38 -0500 (EST)
Reply-To: mharris AT blackwidow DOT saultc DOT on DOT ca
To: "Colin W. Glenn" <cwg01 AT gnofn DOT org>
cc: "'OpenDOS newsgroup'" <opendos AT mail DOT tacoma DOT net>
Subject: Re: [opendos] OpenDOS + Win95 w/FAT32?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.95.970210234028.12913D-100000@sparkie.gnofn.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.970211064835.285d-101000@capslock.com>
Organization: Total disorganization.
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On Mon, 10 Feb 1997, Colin W. Glenn wrote:

> > 2) It's LINUX, not Lunix.
> Sorry I get that confused and forget whether it's i before u or u before me..

No problem, honest mistake.

> > If you'd like, I'd be more than happy to send you the INFO-SHEET,
> As long as it's short.
> 
> void main()
>   {
>    if (sizeof(infosheet) < 10000)
>     email(infosheet);
>   }

Here you go. (see attachment)

> > > to %OPENDOSCFG%\FSTAB for later mounting by MOUNT in
> > > kernel, the file system drivers, and config.sys sit inside of their own
> > > private partition for booting purposes, then after booting, it calls the
> > Simple, because a hard disk is limited to 4 partitions, and you'd
> > be unnecessarily wasting one of those 4 partitions.  I know
> 
> Right, I know, but the advantage would be that the OS _is_ independant of the
> filesystem's which _need_ to be used.  You should be able to set up so that
> _regardless_ of which shell system you work with, access's to different FS's
> should happen _transparently_, without the shell knowing what happens.

Well, the shell isn't part of the OS, it is just a utility just
like any other.  It doesn't contain the FS code.  The kernel
contains the FS code, or else it is added on as a driver or a
module.  I'm not willing to give up an extra partition just to
boot an OS.  DOS boots very easily now, and so does Linux.  By
supplying multiple kernels to the user, and multiple boot
records, the user is free to choose which file system they'd like
to be the root filesystem.  Then they need only type something
like: SYS C: /TYPE=ext2, or to reinstall the current as default
just SYS C: like normal.  The BR boots the kernel from WHATEVER
filesystem it is on because the BR knows how to boot THAT
filesystem.  Then the kernel can mount filesystems that it has
built in (that you've specified in config.sys or in an FSTAB
file).  Or instead of having the kernel automatically mount
everything, one could manually mount with the MOUNT command.  It
is VERY simple, both to use, maintain, and install.  It doesn't
need any special boot sector layering, nor any special drivers in
cryptic places on the HD.

 
> > personally that I'll want a TOTALLY 100% ext2 system when ext2
> 
> Your preference.

And anyone else who has ever used ext2 as well.  What FS do you
prefer?  The only viable candidates IMO are ext2, HPFS, and NTFS.

> > my ext2 drives, I'd like to have the option of which drives to
> > mount, and HOW they should be mounted (R/W, RO).  This is most
> 
> This could also be established through a 'mount proceedure table'.

Yes, I agree, it is called FSTAB, and is mounted from
AUTOEXEC.BAT by the MOUNT /A command.


> > Also, Joe average can modify a text file easier than he can
> > partition his disk drive.  Also, what if the drive is allready
> > partitioned?  Does that mean you should destroy all OS's
> > currently on the drive?  I think DOS should boot off of any
> > partition just like linux or any other OS worth its salt.
> 
> True, DOS should operate like a true, independant OS, but it doesn't and 
> that's thanks to singlemindedness.

Yeah, on Microsoft's part.  We will have the ability to change
this however.

> Now give me a think tank.....  It would take very smart piece of software to 
> 'shift' partitions about, it would have to recognize the various types of 
> FS's and OS's within the partition to be able to meddle with the various 
> tables which the systems used,..  Can be done.

Not a chance.  There are a lot of OS's out there and every one
does things in a different manner.  How would this partition
shifter be able to modify my Linux script which gz's my DOS G:
drive (windows swapfile drive) and then turns it into a Linux
swapfile, then on shutdown it restores the partition by unzipping
the file and dd'ing it to /dev/hda7?  Would this "very smart
piece of software" scan all of my Linux programs and disassemble
them into source, then change /dev/hda7 to /dev/hda?, then
recompile them?  I think not.  You propose monstrous complex
changes that are not needed.  The only thing that I can see that
would be more complicated would be to make you type in the boot
code manually on the keyboard every time the computer reboots!
 
> > It is SIMPLE, and is hardly trouble.  The CONFIG.SYS method is
> > also fairly simple to implement (although I find it inferior).
> > > NEXT partition C: .
> > > This would also baffle virus's, until they catch up.
> > I don't see how virii would be effected at all.  Virii reside in
> > the executable files and are written to them via DOS calls.  They
> 
> If the kernel is constructed so that the _next_ partition is drive C, then 
> for everything to work properly, it would have to hook into the BIOS's disk 
> access interrupt.  Which means that partition 'C' would have a boot record, 
> but it's never used, and any tampering with the MBR would get caught.

A lot of viruses directly access the HD controller and can write
to ANY sector on the hard disk without DOS OR the BIOS being
aware of it.  What you're proposing is including antivirus
software into the DOS kernel.  All of the resident AV software
can be outfooled by existing viruses.  I know because I have
several disks chock full of them.  The only thing that resident
scanners do is slow down the system, annoy you when you are
compiling C programs to EXE's and reboot the computer due to
screwing around with it.  Let's let Fprot handle the viruses, and
let the MBR boot DOS directly.

 
> > > This would allow you to create different filesystems for different
> > > purposes, and seeing as config.sys is isolated from whatever filesystem
> 
> Ok, perhaps this was too much wishing for a unified OS.

What reason would anyone have for using different filesystems in
DOS?  The whole point of making installable file systems in DOS
is to allow you to read/write to the filesystems of OTHER
operating systems, and also to allow you to change the native FS
in DOS to a superior one such as ext2.  What benefit would you
have by running 4 different filesystems on a DOS only machine?



Mike A. Harris        |             http://blackwidow.saultc.on.ca/~mharris
Computer Consultant   |    My webpage has moved and my address has changed.
My dynamic address: http://blackwidow.saultc.on.ca/~mharris/ip-address.html
mailto:mharris AT blackwidow DOT saultc DOT on DOT ca

OpenDOS: The NEW DOS with FREE source code! http://www.caldera.com

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