delorie.com/archives/browse.cgi   search  
Mail Archives: geda-user/2017/02/19/15:03:21

X-Authentication-Warning: delorie.com: mail set sender to geda-user-bounces using -f
X-Recipient: geda-user AT delorie DOT com
X-Original-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=googlemail.com; s=20161025;
h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to;
bh=1fag7ibSRgTKNkdjL+ykz1be5ecC7gfPPOoNSrm47e0=;
b=bLiX70aBJYXiaCDMCocMcrnd1nYT6a5rZy/hOWM1f7Mvk7/fHrLPmct1MbsvMRedDk
WXITZvWSDezX6NF9dO/uNvZxM+OtnV1/cR9Vbu0Jo4tRZpnC8MKAgsG5NVglprGq01cn
EsJGH//87JzkWzT6XHPo1CgqLGWwGy8ftY2wIOoZyLJ+bZMefezHPYs67RLwMggIDLjv
mO/7RTls8vSN56X0OZ3egu4oDpoyaDGG+h3u12WMw+pdf2ozMRA/mArHSQCAac5D5tPj
iHBacoTDM7LR6frNoJp5GgUZJGyrEuW1GVceAcFubE8YsHLYxI/eWaBmGMpHnfshxwV+
LTvQ==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=1e100.net; s=20161025;
h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date
:message-id:subject:to;
bh=1fag7ibSRgTKNkdjL+ykz1be5ecC7gfPPOoNSrm47e0=;
b=cHzRb8ZoPoFyVDbSuEsHw37kRJcIlVzvbUcTWstdSwB+ARB+U1HNEpQCNntMiEtuh1
fb45RFLDPXphQjSIcRRD2Zq+vFAy8qXXR5SR0gXsPgpl4ia4wdjKwZl+xRwpag4WsFsE
m5RbtCtiXLiJB1UxdIg/urBatxK7xzG89VUTh289O3K2w1oMplFHCya2xBcEIACW/mm2
+uQtDpYJ5QWFo2MEL+YMFc7egsXuwJOKS1WTfIn4czN8Qh/XGm1nzHrk3YPKJE91QyEv
cQj5BoWk075nsf2UxO1Pa3fzJfjmLiM57iNT9+hcRuJ6xc2kJ8X1ezsgZNsIlF+RzFAE
VNOA==
X-Gm-Message-State: AMke39kGNaFCOn7Gz2kge1wPS4UcOuwDokg46FruniuYSbRW3CSj9o62qLUdhe/+vV6HCd2t5/s1moUGbEgN5Q==
X-Received: by 10.200.55.178 with SMTP id d47mr17892791qtc.60.1487534535767;
Sun, 19 Feb 2017 12:02:15 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <CAJZxidBbpH6d+kEFrZMvgykdNeLdau_GDGpX66qTQJ93CHW9ew@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJXU7q-QC5XAf5rA=BBxQ0vskiTt5XmnAkE2wcf4aoiSLMyRRQ AT mail DOT gmail DOT com>
<CAJXU7q8M7tun79CqpdaCmB7CC9GzHZ2sSYKJefs1M8-3KkuKnA AT mail DOT gmail DOT com>
<CAJXU7q8BpwR2J01b8qkjxUqjo5X-8Zfi-K1SyiyAW7hM02BOjA AT mail DOT gmail DOT com>
<CAJXU7q8MisQDGcbXcy6jPPzJeFmxvZekHFT0KNMam-zipVWTPg AT mail DOT gmail DOT com>
<CAJXU7q_Ppy7nXDdU7rQfrraH5ervOoAC9SQ7eBB7rm1afaX1eA AT mail DOT gmail DOT com> <CAJZxidBbpH6d+kEFrZMvgykdNeLdau_GDGpX66qTQJ93CHW9ew AT mail DOT gmail DOT com>
From: "Peter Clifton (petercjclifton AT googlemail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com]" <geda-user AT delorie DOT com>
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2017 20:02:15 +0000
Message-ID: <CAJXU7q9NaM9obhyOa58BBERk410Jr-F_nUkUAYb97JZoGaY4tQ@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [geda-user] Moved from geda-help.. Re: [geda-help] Strange view
in pcb!
To: gEDA User Mailing List <geda-user AT delorie DOT com>
Reply-To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com
Errors-To: nobody AT delorie DOT com
X-Mailing-List: geda-user AT delorie DOT com
X-Unsubscribes-To: listserv AT delorie DOT com

--001a1140dece98b6330548e79fca
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

On 19 Feb 2017 19:51, "Chad Parker (parker DOT charles AT gmail DOT com) [via
geda-user AT delorie DOT com]" <geda-user AT delorie DOT com> wrote:

The problem with the code right now is that pins and pads don't actually
exist on layers, they are separate. So, turning off a layer has no effect
on pins or pads. Does your 3D stuff also rework that aspect of
pins/pads/vias and the layer code?


No, but it reworks the rendering stack extensively... for 3D view, it
renders much more like a physical exporter than the traditional "gui"
pipeline imposed by draw.c

Any guess as to when it will arrive?


Not exactly, but it is certainly high on my non - work related goals list
for this year to see that code merged. (It has been out of mainline way too
long).

I can probably point you to a few bits and pieces where I could use help
and code review if you like. I'm mid-attempt at rebasing the old patch
series against HEAD, and one area which could really help (as I'm currently
not designing any boards), is test-driving the result to validate the
rebase.

Peter


--Chad

On Sun, Feb 19, 2017 at 2:25 PM, Peter Clifton (
petercjclifton AT googlemail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com] <
geda-user AT delorie DOT com> wrote:

> Hi Chad,
>
> (Moving to geda-user as this is not directly answering the OP question)
>
> The later 3D stuff will help when it lands. There is a more physical view
> mode where turning off individual layers also hides any features on that
> layer such as pads etc..
>
> Otoh... the fact OP is having issues makes me wonder if they have GL
> enabled or not. Transparency helps.
>
> Peter
>
> Peter
>
>
> On 19 Feb 2017 19:19, "Chad Parker (parker DOT charles AT gmail DOT com) [via
> geda-help AT delorie DOT com]" <geda-help AT delorie DOT com> wrote:
>
> It took me a sec, but I figured out what he means. He's turning off the
> pins/pads so that they're not in the way while he's routing on inner
> layers.
>
> The problem is that when you turn off the pins/pads, it turns them off for
> all layers. On the inner layers a plated thru-hole will (often) have a
> circuilar pad around it, not to mention that there is actually a hole
> through the board. With pins/pads off, there is no indication of this this
> at all and you can route a trace straight through a through-hole with out
> realizing it (or on the top or bottom layer too, actually).
>
> Hence the feature's he's asking for. If you could turn off surface mount
> pads without turning off pins, then this wouldn't be a problem. Or, if we
> had an "online-DRC" that would prevent you from drawing things that
> violated design rules, it would also prevent you from doing this.
>
> The quickest fix for this, I think, is to change things slightly so that
> pins and vias are grouped together for visibility and pads are their own
> separate "layer". The right way to do this probably involves reworking the
> layer system, but this is a pretty quick hack that should work for now.
>
> I opened a bug report on LaunchPad: https://bugs.launchpad.net/pcb
> /+bug/1666052
>
> --Chad
>
> On Sat, Feb 18, 2017 at 3:25 AM, Smilie (smilie AT posteo DOT de) [via
> geda-help AT delorie DOT com] <geda-help AT delorie DOT com> wrote:
>
>> I think, PCB need some additional features:
>>
>>
>> 1. split PIN/PAD Layer in two Buttons PIN and PAD.
>> 2. make it possible, that the "auto enforce DRC clearance" works also
>> while moving lines.
>>
>> 3. the algorithm for "auto enforce DRC clearance" could be modified,
>> that the line will be lay around the barrier?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Am Wed, 15 Feb 2017 15:28:44 +0000
>> schrieb "Peter Clifton (petercjclifton AT googlemail DOT com) [via
>> geda-help AT delorie DOT com]" <geda-help AT delorie DOT com>:
>>
>> > I think I'll have to try that to understand properly; but if you mean
>> > - you accidentally shorted against pins which you had switched off
>> > visibility for... Not sure how to avoid that fully.
>> >
>> > Perhaps need to separate the view controls a little more. In my later
>> > 3D stuff (available on repo.or.cz), in 3D view turning off any layer
>> > also hides things like copper pads on that layer.
>> >
>> > Peter
>> >
>> > Peter
>> >
>> > On 15 Feb 2017 15:19, "Smilie (smilie AT posteo DOT de) [via
>> > geda-help AT delorie DOT com]" <geda-help AT delorie DOT com> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Am Wed, 15 Feb 2017 10:48:02 +0000
>> > > schrieb "Peter Clifton (petercjclifton AT googlemail DOT com) [via
>> > > geda-help AT delorie DOT com]" <geda-help AT delorie DOT com>:
>> > >
>> > > >  Any chance you can post a screenshot of what you describe?
>> > > >
>> > > > (Imagebin.ca or similar if the files are big?)
>> > > >
>> > > > On 15 Feb 2017 10:45, "Smilie (smilie AT posteo DOT de) [via
>> > > > geda-help AT delorie DOT com]" <geda-help AT delorie DOT com> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > > Hello guys,
>> > > > >
>> > > > > if i have an Jumper connected through all layers.
>> > > > > But if i disable the view of all layers, apart from a inner
>> > > > > signal-layer, the contacts of the connected through is not
>> > > > > visible. This is in my opinion a bug.
>> > > > > Or what is this feature for?
>> > > > >
>> > > > > lg
>> > > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > OK, i see the Failure, but i will explain the situation.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Step by step:
>> > >
>> > > 1. create a new pcb.
>> > >
>> > > 2. Load a Jumper1 and place it to the board.
>> > >
>> > > 3. Take also some SMD-footprints an place it free over the board.
>> > >
>> > > Now you wont draw a line in a (signal) middle layer, but the
>> > > SMD-Footprints are worry. Because this you make some layers
>> > > invisible.
>> > >
>> > > 4. Now you make the pins/pads invisible. Or what?
>> > >
>> > > But, you can not free draw the middle layer, because you have
>> > > collisions with footprints like Jumper1.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>>
>>
>
>

--001a1140dece98b6330548e79fca
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"auto"><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gma=
il_quote">On 19 Feb 2017 19:51, &quot;Chad Parker (<a href=3D"mailto:parker=
.charles AT gmail DOT com">parker DOT charles AT gmail DOT com</a>) [via <a href=3D"mailto:ge=
da-user AT delorie DOT com">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>]&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:geda-user AT delorie DOT com">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>&gt; wrote:<br type=3D"att=
ribution"><blockquote class=3D"quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-lef=
t:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>The problem with t=
he code right now is that pins and pads don&#39;t actually exist on layers,=
 they are separate. So, turning off a layer has no effect on pins or pads. =
Does your 3D stuff also rework that aspect of pins/pads/vias and the layer =
code?</div></div></blockquote></div></div></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div=
><div dir=3D"auto">No, but it reworks the rendering stack extensively... fo=
r 3D view, it renders much more like a physical exporter than the tradition=
al &quot;gui&quot; pipeline imposed by draw.c</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></=
div><div dir=3D"auto"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"=
><blockquote class=3D"quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #cc=
c solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div> Any guess as to when it wi=
ll arrive?<font color=3D"#888888"><br></font></div></div></blockquote></div=
></div></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Not exactly, but=
 it is certainly high on my non - work related goals list for this year to =
see that code merged. (It has been out of mainline way too long).</div><div=
 dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">I can probably point you to a few=
 bits and pieces where I could use help and code review if you like. I&#39;=
m mid-attempt at rebasing the old patch series against HEAD, and one area w=
hich could really help (as I&#39;m currently not designing any boards), is =
test-driving the result to validate the rebase.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br>=
</div><div dir=3D"auto">Peter</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"=
auto"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote cla=
ss=3D"quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-=
left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><font color=3D"#888888"><br></font></div><f=
ont color=3D"#888888">--Chad<br></font></div><div class=3D"elided-text"><di=
v class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Feb 19, 2017=
 at 2:25 PM, Peter Clifton (<a href=3D"mailto:petercjclifton AT googlemail DOT com=
" target=3D"_blank">petercjclifton AT googlemail DOT com</a><wbr>) [via <a href=3D=
"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com" target=3D"_blank">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>]=
 <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com" target=3D"_=
blank">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"=
gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-=
left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto">Hi Chad,<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D=
"auto">(Moving to geda-user as this is not directly answering the OP questi=
on)<br><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">The later 3D stuff wil=
l help when it lands. There is a more physical view mode where turning off =
individual layers also hides any features on that layer such as pads etc..<=
/div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Otoh... the fact OP is h=
aving issues makes me wonder if they have GL enabled or not. Transparency h=
elps.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Peter</div><div di=
r=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Peter</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></d=
iv></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On=
 19 Feb 2017 19:19, &quot;Chad Parker (<a href=3D"mailto:parker DOT charles AT gma=
il.com" target=3D"_blank">parker DOT charles AT gmail DOT com</a>) [via <a href=3D"mai=
lto:geda-help AT delorie DOT com" target=3D"_blank">geda-help AT delorie DOT com</a>]&quo=
t; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:geda-help AT delorie DOT com" target=3D"_blank">geda-help=
@delorie.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br type=3D"attribution"><blockquote class=3D"m_=
-1478200450418684039m_6660508985195357959quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;=
border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><di=
v>It took me a sec, but I figured out what he means.=C2=A0He&#39;s turning =
off the pins/pads so that they&#39;re not in the way while he&#39;s routing=
 on inner layers. <br><br>The
 problem is that when you turn off the pins/pads, it turns them off for=20
all layers. On the inner layers a plated thru-hole will (often) have a=20
circuilar pad around it, not to mention that there is actually a hole=20
through the board. With pins/pads off, there is no indication of this=20
this at all and you can route a trace straight through a through-hole=20
with out realizing it (or on the top or bottom layer too, actually).<br><br=
></div>Hence the feature&#39;s he&#39;s asking for. If you could turn off s=
urface mount pads without turning off pins, then this wouldn&#39;t be a pro=
blem. Or, if we had an &quot;online-DRC&quot; that would prevent you from d=
rawing things that violated design rules, it would also prevent you from do=
ing this.<br><br></div>The quickest fix for this, I think, is to change thi=
ngs slightly so that pins and vias are grouped together for visibility and =
pads are their own separate &quot;layer&quot;. The right way to do this pro=
bably involves reworking the layer system, but this is a pretty quick hack =
that should work for now. <br><br></div><div>I opened a bug report on Launc=
hPad: <a href=3D"https://bugs.launchpad.net/pcb/+bug/1666052" target=3D"_bl=
ank">https://bugs.launchpad.net/pcb<wbr>/+bug/1666052</a><br></div><br>--Ch=
ad<br></div><div class=3D"m_-1478200450418684039m_6660508985195357959elided=
-text"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Fe=
b 18, 2017 at 3:25 AM, Smilie (<a href=3D"mailto:smilie AT posteo DOT de" target=
=3D"_blank">smilie AT posteo DOT de</a>) [via <a href=3D"mailto:geda-help AT delorie.=
com" target=3D"_blank">geda-help AT delorie DOT com</a>] <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:geda-help AT delorie DOT com" target=3D"_blank">geda-help AT delorie DOT c=
om</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"marg=
in:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I think, PCB nee=
d some additional features:<br>
<br>
<br>
1. split PIN/PAD Layer in two Buttons PIN and PAD.<br>
2. make it possible, that the &quot;auto enforce DRC clearance&quot; works =
also<br>
while moving lines.<br>
<br>
3. the algorithm for &quot;auto enforce DRC clearance&quot; could be modifi=
ed,<br>
that the line will be lay around the barrier?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Am Wed, 15 Feb 2017 15:28:44 +0000<br>
<div class=3D"m_-1478200450418684039m_6660508985195357959m_6021418697146987=
89HOEnZb"><div class=3D"m_-1478200450418684039m_6660508985195357959m_602141=
869714698789h5">schrieb &quot;Peter Clifton (<a href=3D"mailto:petercjclift=
on AT googlemail DOT com" target=3D"_blank">petercjclifton AT googlemail DOT com</a><wbr>=
) [via<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:geda-help AT delorie DOT com" target=3D"_blank">geda-help AT delori=
e.com</a>]&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:geda-help AT delorie DOT com" target=3D"_bl=
ank">geda-help AT delorie DOT com</a>&gt;:<br>
<br>
&gt; I think I&#39;ll have to try that to understand properly; but if you m=
ean<br>
&gt; - you accidentally shorted against pins which you had switched off<br>
&gt; visibility for... Not sure how to avoid that fully.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Perhaps need to separate the view controls a little more. In my later<=
br>
&gt; 3D stuff (available on <a href=3D"http://repo.or.cz" rel=3D"noreferrer=
" target=3D"_blank">repo.or.cz</a>), in 3D view turning off any layer<br>
&gt; also hides things like copper pads on that layer.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Peter<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Peter<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; On 15 Feb 2017 15:19, &quot;Smilie (<a href=3D"mailto:smilie AT posteo DOT de=
" target=3D"_blank">smilie AT posteo DOT de</a>) [via<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:geda-help AT delorie DOT com" target=3D"_blank">geda-help AT d=
elorie.com</a>]&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:geda-help AT delorie DOT com" target=
=3D"_blank">geda-help AT delorie DOT com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Am Wed, 15 Feb 2017 10:48:02 +0000<br>
&gt; &gt; schrieb &quot;Peter Clifton (<a href=3D"mailto:petercjclifton AT goo=
glemail.com" target=3D"_blank">petercjclifton AT googlemail DOT com</a><wbr>) [via=
<br>
&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:geda-help AT delorie DOT com" target=3D"_blank">geda-h=
elp AT delorie DOT com</a>]&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:geda-help AT delorie DOT com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">geda-help AT delorie DOT com</a>&gt;:<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0 Any chance you can post a screenshot of what you descr=
ibe?<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; (Imagebin.ca or similar if the files are big?)<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; On 15 Feb 2017 10:45, &quot;Smilie (<a href=3D"mailto:smilie=
@posteo.de" target=3D"_blank">smilie AT posteo DOT de</a>) [via<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:geda-help AT delorie DOT com" target=3D"_blank">g=
eda-help AT delorie DOT com</a>]&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:geda-help AT delorie DOT com=
" target=3D"_blank">geda-help AT delorie DOT com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Hello guys,<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; if i have an Jumper connected through all layers.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; But if i disable the view of all layers, apart from a i=
nner<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; signal-layer, the contacts of the connected through is =
not<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; visible. This is in my opinion a bug.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Or what is this feature for?<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; lg<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; OK, i see the Failure, but i will explain the situation.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Step by step:<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; 1. create a new pcb.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; 2. Load a Jumper1 and place it to the board.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; 3. Take also some SMD-footprints an place it free over the board.=
<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Now you wont draw a line in a (signal) middle layer, but the<br>
&gt; &gt; SMD-Footprints are worry. Because this you make some layers<br>
&gt; &gt; invisible.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; 4. Now you make the pins/pads invisible. Or what?<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; But, you can not free draw the middle layer, because you have<br>
&gt; &gt; collisions with footprints like Jumper1.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
</div></blockquote></div><br></div>
</blockquote></div><br></div>
</div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div>

--001a1140dece98b6330548e79fca--

- Raw text -


  webmaster     delorie software   privacy  
  Copyright © 2019   by DJ Delorie     Updated Jul 2019