X-Authentication-Warning:	delorie.com: mail set sender to geda-user-bounces using -f
X-Recipient:	geda-user AT delorie DOT com
X-Original-DKIM-Signature:	v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
	d=gmail.com; s=20161025;
	h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:mail-followup-to:references
	:mime-version:content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent;
	bh=8guRfaPv4oQKweXPWz8rMOhxeiMBqCmfanAZWYYO83Q=;
	b=fxquDUAWGaIlrC7bqXdCH0Azzu5RxD+kBig3YkzcMJC+bizgYKd5S3qM7/SudkEnCw
	LnQbG4sT2zKKGMTevtZRLsFU9ADUqpBp43fR4bhcBCqK6pMty7dT5Da4kXCELlQW7cjt
	cBVEmzVJUCLxLrj5vLlac+5fRsepQ3A0W8s3e3IvTWETUu7ZpMkjFgOyKYiSUTqDapjw
	Q/Di4ceYQ+UAZx2fwAHeOrYxCBRlWa4Susn4MT4wVE05TpLJAxq9yQVUFbcrVBC52dcr
	vbgWekG/I+4UriVw0J0k83b8CTT7malSZZKPio6TiWgkoNaFan4YEEUWLfe6TBZsUzEd
	vXeA==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature:	v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
	d=1e100.net; s=20161025;
	h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:subject:message-id:mail-followup-to
	:references:mime-version:content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent;
	bh=8guRfaPv4oQKweXPWz8rMOhxeiMBqCmfanAZWYYO83Q=;
	b=uFzf3A9WCCcnFx3edx/BOTdcTit5BlzCaXzNeNoBWWUjZ+mWQybe8DFSLBLe4E2+yL
	KCVwzH5uoXKkL1EMLn9lr1/yA8FLwTdATVUJuuOcmNivA/4w2x++kiwUaFoZLGPYBz8J
	u410RjAaFlhhAzBq1zTC7Y7+Xynup+dXFqLx1Dzux4HFTrtV0ViZ0FBKCQY+FdSQvjfI
	NgD9xP4Rb4dNRvkFD9GTUjZjxfuzJzEbuGPj78Nt01ZROf9ucFkgUoCQbWuLSys0fFF6
	X5X1o55Z/0UVVF6YAQlh+dwQe60fjY+/y8PBdOr4STEWHLoJ1TExf5FMf0xZl0v75Eut
	oiOw==
X-Gm-Message-State:	AMke39mn+lCqjpyNpcHeixeHblJbtGh319uKJlpKvw5x0XN90PgQayL0FFYSJ1gjwmim3g==
X-Received:	by 10.46.81.18 with SMTP id f18mr5502337ljb.62.1486895892319;
	Sun, 12 Feb 2017 02:38:12 -0800 (PST)
Date:	Sun, 12 Feb 2017 13:38:10 +0300
From:	"Vladimir Zhbanov (vzhbanov AT gmail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com]" <geda-user AT delorie DOT com>
To:	"Vladimir Zhbanov (vzhbanov AT gmail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com]" <geda-user AT delorie DOT com>
Subject:	Re: the ecosystem (was: Re: [geda-user] gnetlist chaos)
Message-ID:	<20170212103810.GC30751@localhost.localdomain>
Mail-Followup-To:	"Vladimir Zhbanov (vzhbanov AT gmail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com]" <geda-user AT delorie DOT com>
References:	<D0E30DB4-3ADF-415C-A95E-B58F09AE054D AT noqsi DOT com>
	<alpine DOT DEB DOT 2 DOT 11 DOT 1702111609100 DOT 25113 AT nimbus>
	<CAJXU7q_ogjTmEOjruGJ3od-GYdv_gef0X_yc7Fne1q6kDu1xrg AT mail DOT gmail DOT com>
	<0D03FED9-A309-4F6C-9863-0EC6DB35176D AT noqsi DOT com>
	<20170211182330 DOT GO21523 AT foo DOT stuge DOT se>
	<FA6FF0F2-6850-4B55-A19F-A343CB8762A9 AT noqsi DOT com>
	<20170211205800 DOT GB14489 AT localhost DOT localdomain>
	<CAM2RGhQxatfsMJ=MpUUyyhcU9-1wzapE319CSiBzuJB9DLCxpQ AT mail DOT gmail DOT com>
	<20170212091821 DOT GB450 AT localhost DOT localdomain>
	<alpine DOT DEB DOT 2 DOT 00 DOT 1702121040590 DOT 7286 AT igor2priv>
MIME-Version:	1.0
In-Reply-To:	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1702121040590.7286@igor2priv>
User-Agent:	Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12)
Reply-To:	geda-user AT delorie DOT com
Errors-To:	nobody AT delorie DOT com
X-Mailing-List:	geda-user AT delorie DOT com
X-Unsubscribes-To:	listserv AT delorie DOT com

On Sun, Feb 12, 2017 at 11:04:32AM +0100, gedau AT igor2 DOT repo DOT hu wrote:
> 
> 
> On Sun, 12 Feb 2017, Vladimir Zhbanov (vzhbanov AT gmail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com] wrote:
> 
> >cleaner, though stopped due to having no support for this in
> >mainline pcb
> 
> Disclaimer:
> 
> I am honestly not trolling here, just sharing my experience. I am absolutely
> not trying to say what you should do in your branch or in general. What I
> say is not even specific to this case, it's really just a generic
> consideration that I genuinely think could be useful to consider.
> 
> Facts:
> 
> We've been working on import/export of random external autorouters,
> schematics editors, simulatros and tools in pcb-rnd lately. Some of these
> external tools are small, some are big. Some free, some proprietary. A
> common pattern tho is that we can build a working first version of such a
> bridge in a few hours or at most in a few days. They are cheap. Even all of
> them together seem to be cheap.
> 
> Personal opinions:
> 
> I believe the future of gEDA (and generally anything non-KiCad on the free
> EDA tool scene) is not some centralized effort, not some official big pack,
> not an official all-in-one distribution. I think the future is building
> random bridges between random tools, without caring whether a given bridge
> would be also a bridge to all other similar tools or not. If we have a
> critical mass of such bridges, a random collection of the tools start to
> form an useful suite. If we don't, users will switch to KiCad or Altium,
> etc., because "That Just Works (tm)".
> 
> What I say is clearly duplication of effort and code - waste of time short
> term. On the other hand, we either get a suboptimal but working solution in
> t=tomorrow, or we wait for some magic "everyone uses this common
> protocol/file format/API/lib/mechanism" and have the first solution to offer
> in t=infinite. (I strongly believe users won't wait till t=infinite.)

Agreed. I think one of the biggest gEDA weaknesses is that people
tried to support all anyhow rather than support a small set of
things well. For example, in my branch, I've fixed some gnetlist
back-ends, and found many others were non-working (if at all) for
years. This is not unix way and this just don't work
properly. Especially with lacking man-power and having such
contradictions in views amongst the devs.

> 
> I don't say anyone should do anything this or that way. I only say we, at
> pcb-rnd, do build those bridges. If anyone wants to join this decentralized
> effort, from schematics side, simulation side, autorouter side,
> "competing"/"alternative" PCB layout tool side, we welcome them.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Igor2
> 
> 

-- 
  Vladimir

- Raw text -