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From: "Russell Nelson (russnelson AT gmail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com]" <geda-user AT delorie DOT com>
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2016 14:16:47 -0500
Message-ID: <CA+uY=MQB-BZ8i0qrEwDe2nfDjLTb4JmXuxtCWRxG0wi_WWhhwg@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [geda-user] COSMAC ELF in gEDA and the power rail problem for
logic ICs
To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com
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Big-ass transistors. "Gimme all the alpha particles you want, I'm not
flipping my bits!" The COSMAC Elf was my first computer. 1802 definitely a
strange processor. I used one in a stereo audio controller that I used for
many years.

On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 6:02 PM, Gene Heskett (gheskett AT shentel DOT net) [via
geda-user AT delorie DOT com] <geda-user AT delorie DOT com> wrote:

> On Monday 24 October 2016 17:18:24 Dave McGuire (mcguire AT neurotica DOT com)
> [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com] wrote:
>
> >   Very, very cool story!
> >
> >   The 1802 is far from mainstream of course, but it's still a current
> > product, made by Intersil.  The only ones still made are mil-spec,
> > which oughtta tell us something.
> >
> >               -Dave
>
> Yes, its ability to work in a radiation environmemt that would cook any
> of us in just a few minutes is the reason.  The deep space stuff we have
> out there is all running on 1802 family stuff.
> >
> > On 10/24/2016 04:55 PM, Bob Paddock (graceindustries AT gmail DOT com) [via
> >
> > geda-user AT delorie DOT com] wrote:
> > > On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 9:39 AM, Dave McGuire
> > > (mcguire AT neurotica DOT com)
> > >
> > > [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com] <geda-user AT delorie DOT com> wrote:
> > >> On 10/23/2016 10:24 PM, Atommann (atommann AT gmail DOT com) [via
> > >>
> > >> geda-user AT delorie DOT com] wrote:
> > >>> Recently I redraw[1] the cosmac elf microcomputer which was from
> > >>> the Popular Electronics magazine 1976 August issue. And soldered
> > >>> one[2], it works right away!
> > >>
> > >>   Hi!  I don't have any suggestions for your problem, but I just
> > >> have to speak up about the Elf.
> > >
> > > Here is some 1802 trivia you'll not find anyplace else.
> > >
> > > The predecessor to the 1802 was a two chip set the 1800/1801
> > > available only in ceramic packages.
> > > It was used in some early satellites.  Perhaps some other Government
> > > projects.
> > >
> > > As this predates my involvement I don't know the details, some how
> > > what would become my boss in the future at Matric Limited,
> > >  got a hold of one of these chip sets, probably still has it hidden
> > > away someplace to his wife's dismay; I expect I'll be the one
> > > cleaning out this stuff someday after Lee's passing no one else
> > > would know what it was or where it was stashed in the old building.
> > >
> > > Matric got a contract form the government to build a Automatic Roof
> > > Bolter for Coal Mines as a subcontract to Ingersoll Rand.
> > > So there is some government connection back to RCA, this is the part
> > > I'm missing, which got Lee the 1800/1801 chips.
> > >
> > > Lee designs a new Coal Mine control for a different contract about
> > > the time the 1802 is released.
> > > After the ELF came out, I was hired on to write software for the
> > > 1802 for the new 1802 based control.
> > >
> > > Everyone is aware of the impact of the 1802 after the Popular
> > > Electronics article comes out.
> > > What people are not aware of is how it died.  I don't know what
> > > happened internally at RCA.
> > >
> > > RCA was bought out, Harris etc.  Same people setting at the same
> > > desks with new name on the door of the company for a while.
> > >
> > > RCA had a product line called MicroBoards, which were a 44-pin edge
> > > card bus and a line of industrial membrane keyboards under the name
> > > Cardinal Technology.
> > >
> > > The controls that ran the sub  Alvin from Woods Hole Oceanographic
> > > Institution that found the Titanic was using these boards, because
> > > the CMOS 1802 and rest of the 4000 family logic was the only thing
> > > they found that would work through the dew point as the sub
> > > descended at that time.
> > >
> > > Matric bought out the MicroBoard line from RCA (not sure who
> > > actually owned it at this point.) I flew to New Jersey to learn the
> > > testing procedures and over see the transfer for the board line.
> > > After awhile Matric also took over the keyboard line and Matric
> > > ended up with all of the remaining inventory of the 18xx chips for
> > > IO, Graphics, a few 1802, some 1805 (1805 had the 1802 stack code
> > > hard-coded and a couple of other minor changes that escape me right
> > > now) etc.
> > >
> > > After several years Matric retired the MicroBoard line and a few
> > > more years retired the keyboard line.
> > >
> > > After a few more years setting the the warehouse at Matric all of
> > > the related stuff including the chips were moved to a storage locker
> > > where accountant kept their YEARS of paper work.  All just tossed
> > > in.  It was no fun the one time I had to go find some 18xx chip to
> > > fix something.
> > >
> > > After I left Matric for my current gig (Resume anyone?  Feel it is
> > > time to move on and do something different), so this part is second
> > > hand:
> > >
> > > Someone from the US State Department showed up at Matric with a
> > > Cardinal keyboard in hand saying "You *WILL* fix this" (they had be
> > > told on the phone that the line was no longer supported).
> > >
> > > The keyboard failed, I don't know why, and needed some of the chips
> > > from the storage locker as no one else in the world had them.
> > >
> > > The keyboard controlled a Nuclear Power Plant in Japan.  Which one I
> > > do not know.  No one wanted to do the paper work to use a new
> > > keyboard to run the plant.
> > > So *THAT* keyboard had to be repaired, which it was, it could not
> > > even be replaced with an identical (not that there were any)
> > > keyboard.
> > >
> > > So the last vestiges of the once proud 1802 family are decaying away
> > > in a storage locker to the best of my knowledge (perhaps someone has
> > > cleaned it out and trashed everything by now, I do not know)...
>
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
>

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Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Big-ass transistors. &quot;Gimme all the alpha particles y=
ou want, I&#39;m not flipping my bits!&quot; The COSMAC Elf was my first co=
mputer. 1802 definitely a strange processor. I used one in a stereo audio c=
ontroller that I used for many years.</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><=
div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 6:02 PM, Gene Heskett (<a=
 href=3D"mailto:gheskett AT shentel DOT net">gheskett AT shentel DOT net</a>) [via <a hre=
f=3D"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>] <span dir=3D"=
ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com" target=3D"_blank">geda-us=
er AT delorie DOT com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" s=
tyle=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">On M=
onday 24 October 2016 17:18:24 Dave McGuire (<a href=3D"mailto:mcguire AT neur=
otica.com">mcguire AT neurotica DOT com</a>)<br>
<span class=3D"">[via <a href=3D"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com">geda-user AT de=
lorie.com</a>] wrote:<br>
<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0Very, very cool story!<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0The 1802 is far from mainstream of course, but it&#39;s st=
ill a current<br>
&gt; product, made by Intersil.=C2=A0 The only ones still made are mil-spec=
,<br>
&gt; which oughtta tell us something.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0-Dave<br>
<br>
</span>Yes, its ability to work in a radiation environmemt that would cook =
any<br>
of us in just a few minutes is the reason.=C2=A0 The deep space stuff we ha=
ve<br>
out there is all running on 1802 family stuff.<br>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5">&gt;<br>
&gt; On 10/24/2016 04:55 PM, Bob Paddock (<a href=3D"mailto:graceindustries=
@gmail.com">graceindustries AT gmail DOT com</a>) [via<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>] wr=
ote:<br>
&gt; &gt; On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 9:39 AM, Dave McGuire<br>
&gt; &gt; (<a href=3D"mailto:mcguire AT neurotica DOT com">mcguire AT neurotica DOT com</=
a>)<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; [via <a href=3D"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com">geda-user AT delorie DOT c=
om</a>] &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com">geda-user AT delorie DOT com<=
/a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; On 10/23/2016 10:24 PM, Atommann (<a href=3D"mailto:atommann@=
gmail.com">atommann AT gmail DOT com</a>) [via<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com">geda-user AT delorie DOT co=
m</a>] wrote:<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Recently I redraw[1] the cosmac elf microcomputer which w=
as from<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; the Popular Electronics magazine 1976 August issue. And s=
oldered<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; one[2], it works right away!<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0Hi!=C2=A0 I don&#39;t have any suggestions for yo=
ur problem, but I just<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; have to speak up about the Elf.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Here is some 1802 trivia you&#39;ll not find anyplace else.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; The predecessor to the 1802 was a two chip set the 1800/1801<br>
&gt; &gt; available only in ceramic packages.<br>
&gt; &gt; It was used in some early satellites.=C2=A0 Perhaps some other Go=
vernment<br>
&gt; &gt; projects.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; As this predates my involvement I don&#39;t know the details, som=
e how<br>
&gt; &gt; what would become my boss in the future at Matric Limited,<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 got a hold of one of these chip sets, probably still has it=
 hidden<br>
&gt; &gt; away someplace to his wife&#39;s dismay; I expect I&#39;ll be the=
 one<br>
&gt; &gt; cleaning out this stuff someday after Lee&#39;s passing no one el=
se<br>
&gt; &gt; would know what it was or where it was stashed in the old buildin=
g.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Matric got a contract form the government to build a Automatic Ro=
of<br>
&gt; &gt; Bolter for Coal Mines as a subcontract to Ingersoll Rand.<br>
&gt; &gt; So there is some government connection back to RCA, this is the p=
art<br>
&gt; &gt; I&#39;m missing, which got Lee the 1800/1801 chips.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Lee designs a new Coal Mine control for a different contract abou=
t<br>
&gt; &gt; the time the 1802 is released.<br>
&gt; &gt; After the ELF came out, I was hired on to write software for the<=
br>
&gt; &gt; 1802 for the new 1802 based control.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Everyone is aware of the impact of the 1802 after the Popular<br>
&gt; &gt; Electronics article comes out.<br>
&gt; &gt; What people are not aware of is how it died.=C2=A0 I don&#39;t kn=
ow what<br>
&gt; &gt; happened internally at RCA.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; RCA was bought out, Harris etc.=C2=A0 Same people setting at the =
same<br>
&gt; &gt; desks with new name on the door of the company for a while.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; RCA had a product line called MicroBoards, which were a 44-pin ed=
ge<br>
&gt; &gt; card bus and a line of industrial membrane keyboards under the na=
me<br>
&gt; &gt; Cardinal Technology.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; The controls that ran the sub=C2=A0 Alvin from Woods Hole Oceanog=
raphic<br>
&gt; &gt; Institution that found the Titanic was using these boards, becaus=
e<br>
&gt; &gt; the CMOS 1802 and rest of the 4000 family logic was the only thin=
g<br>
&gt; &gt; they found that would work through the dew point as the sub<br>
&gt; &gt; descended at that time.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Matric bought out the MicroBoard line from RCA (not sure who<br>
&gt; &gt; actually owned it at this point.) I flew to New Jersey to learn t=
he<br>
&gt; &gt; testing procedures and over see the transfer for the board line.<=
br>
&gt; &gt; After awhile Matric also took over the keyboard line and Matric<b=
r>
&gt; &gt; ended up with all of the remaining inventory of the 18xx chips fo=
r<br>
&gt; &gt; IO, Graphics, a few 1802, some 1805 (1805 had the 1802 stack code=
<br>
&gt; &gt; hard-coded and a couple of other minor changes that escape me rig=
ht<br>
&gt; &gt; now) etc.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; After several years Matric retired the MicroBoard line and a few<=
br>
&gt; &gt; more years retired the keyboard line.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; After a few more years setting the the warehouse at Matric all of=
<br>
&gt; &gt; the related stuff including the chips were moved to a storage loc=
ker<br>
&gt; &gt; where accountant kept their YEARS of paper work.=C2=A0 All just t=
ossed<br>
&gt; &gt; in.=C2=A0 It was no fun the one time I had to go find some 18xx c=
hip to<br>
&gt; &gt; fix something.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; After I left Matric for my current gig (Resume anyone?=C2=A0 Feel=
 it is<br>
&gt; &gt; time to move on and do something different), so this part is seco=
nd<br>
&gt; &gt; hand:<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Someone from the US State Department showed up at Matric with a<b=
r>
&gt; &gt; Cardinal keyboard in hand saying &quot;You *WILL* fix this&quot; =
(they had be<br>
&gt; &gt; told on the phone that the line was no longer supported).<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; The keyboard failed, I don&#39;t know why, and needed some of the=
 chips<br>
&gt; &gt; from the storage locker as no one else in the world had them.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; The keyboard controlled a Nuclear Power Plant in Japan.=C2=A0 Whi=
ch one I<br>
&gt; &gt; do not know.=C2=A0 No one wanted to do the paper work to use a ne=
w<br>
&gt; &gt; keyboard to run the plant.<br>
&gt; &gt; So *THAT* keyboard had to be repaired, which it was, it could not=
<br>
&gt; &gt; even be replaced with an identical (not that there were any)<br>
&gt; &gt; keyboard.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; So the last vestiges of the once proud 1802 family are decaying a=
way<br>
&gt; &gt; in a storage locker to the best of my knowledge (perhaps someone =
has<br>
&gt; &gt; cleaned it out and trashed everything by now, I do not know)...<b=
r>
<br>
<br>
</div></div><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5">Cheers, Gene Heskett<br=
>
--<br>
&quot;There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:<br>
=C2=A0soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.&quot;<br>
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)<br>
Genes Web page &lt;<a href=3D"http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene" rel=3D"no=
referrer" target=3D"_blank">http://geneslinuxbox.net:<wbr>6309/gene</a>&gt;=
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a1141e462d0c9be05419825f1--

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