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Mail Archives: geda-user/2016/02/28/23:14:08

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Subject: Re: [geda-user] pcb import schematic crash, parantheses in netname
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From: John Doty <jpd AT noqsi DOT com>
In-Reply-To: <CAC4O8c8K3rLeHna+A-KFXGLPEY6hFqgSstUypWRAKXdE2kwg5A@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 21:13:44 -0700
Message-Id: <216B027E-0040-4B76-BA4C-84A344407320@noqsi.com>
References: <20160215215221 DOT fd472794e7b9446a243bfc40 AT gmail DOT com> <201602152055 DOT u1FKtM4K011038 AT envy DOT delorie DOT com> <20160215220938 DOT bbc7eaa59d827cd0b261ea97 AT gmail DOT com> <D3167F4D-4750-49F8-9125-BDC4937F5C69 AT noqsi DOT com> <201602152135 DOT u1FLZrw9012774 AT envy DOT delorie DOT com> <7F210DE7-0A0B-42F9-ABBE-2C2768621186 AT noqsi DOT com> <20160216081722 DOT 1065cbed6653d3da4ffc7498 AT gmail DOT com> <201602160724 DOT u1G7Ox26001785 AT envy DOT delorie DOT com> <20160216085628 DOT b70143c330cd4da98a4603d3 AT gmail DOT com> <201602160805 DOT u1G85d8c003148 AT envy DOT delorie DOT com> <20160216092912 DOT 7f7439f703b49175a21dbb1b AT gmail DOT com> <CAJXU7q_w5NunkojiCr36RHRTq0hJ+PZP1e0GumTRMoGXcvgRXQ AT mail DOT gmail DOT com> <201602161715 DOT u1GHFMBB028078 AT envy DOT delorie DOT com> <CAC4O8c9jr_b376SpuUk5HrJApP1c75oxsEBemn-i_xtC-rt-Zw AT mail DOT gmail DOT com> <201602162032 DOT u1GKWL7Y005291 AT envy DOT delorie DOT com> <CAC4O8c-ig=0UVAqagNXH_DBmC9uVQDu3Y1Gx7LBGmRCo0-_kVQ AT mail DOT gmail DOT com> <E75ECBB6-14E7-437A-B374-E0CF86BDFF1A AT noqsi DOT com> <CAC4O8c8z4JiJr=mgA+co4pX-yxu_pVsXpeKRYqneuxZNnYqh8g AT mail DOT gmail DOT com> <nauuv2$m6r$!
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On Feb 28, 2016, at 8:46 PM, Britton Kerin (britton DOT kerin AT gmail DOT com) =
[via geda-user AT delorie DOT com] <geda-user AT delorie DOT com> wrote:

>>> If you
>>> knew how it worked at all you wouldn't claim that it implements a =
function
>>> for every use case.  It absolutely does not.  If you actually want =
an idea
>>> how it works take a look in src/gpcb_menu.res.in, and you'll see =
that all
>>> the operations defined in the menus are implemented in terms of =
sequences
>>> of fundamental actions.
>>=20
>> You have a different notion of fundamental than I have. What you call =
fundamental, I call ad hoc. And the proof that I=92m right is that your =
so-called =93fundamental=94 operations do not actually capture the =
construction of a PCB in general.
>=20
> This doesn't prove anything, other than that there are some missing =
features,
> which no one disputes.

Missing for how long?

If gschem had the architecture of pcb, it would need a separate action =
for each kind of component (resistor, capacitor, neon bulb, etc.). It =
would need hard-wired knowledge of things like transistor properties. =
But gschem is sanely written on a simple, general foundation that=92s =
capable of representing all the information that any downstream flow =
might need without gschem needing to know what that might mean to the =
designer.

The number of missing features in pcb is unbounded because it has no =
general way to represent arbitrary structures on a PCB, so every =
possible structure needs a separate feature.

>=20
>>>>>>> Do you remember the poll I did a while ago? The results were =
non-
>>>>>>> ambiguous.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> No, they were on a pcb-dominated forum. Not an unbiased sample.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> The forum in question is also the largest gschem forum
>>>>=20
>>>> Indeed. That=92s a problem. We really need to separate the =
projects. What=92s here of interest to a gschem user who doesn=92t use =
pcb? People like Paul Tan don=92t seem to post anymore.
>>>=20
>>> You're changing the subject from the user composition question and =
relevance
>>> of Kai's poll.  I'll take it you concede the point.
>>=20
>> Of course not. You=92re not being scientific. It is certain that the =
population here is not representative of the whole community, and there =
are strong reasons to believe that geda users who don=92t use pcb are =
underrepresented. You=92ve worked hard to make us unwelcome.
>=20
> You're still trying to dodge the point here, which was this it's the =
biggest
> gschem forum too.  It's more representative than any other.  It's not
> scientific proof and no one claimed it was, bit it is a substantial =
piece
> of evidence that you're really twisting and turning trying to come up =
with
> a reason to ignore.  Regarding unwelcoming behavior, nothing the pcb =
folks
> have done is aimed at gschem users in general, people just tend to =
object to
> you in particular, mostly because you're endlessly hostile to pcb and =
seem
> to love implying that it's not worth working on.  It's hard to measure =
the
> destructiveness of that but it's clearly not going to help anything.

You=92re hostile to the idea that gschem is a general purpose tool. You =
want a specialized tool to serve pcb. And you want it to reflect pcb=92s =
limited horizons.

> My own feeling about you are mixed.  It's awesome that you're still =
doing
> what you do at 80+.

Not *that* old. You must be confusing me with someone else.

> You're *almost* inspirational.  If you were a bit less
> stubborn and combative you would be.

*You* call me stubborn?

>  Sadly I'm going to put you on filter now
> since I apparently have too much trouble resisting your provocations =
otherwise.
> I'll be sure to unblock you if I have any gschem/gnetlist questions :)
>=20
> Britton
>=20
>=20

John Doty              Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd.
http://www.noqsi.com/
jpd AT noqsi DOT com



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