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Mail Archives: geda-user/2016/02/28/10:11:38

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Subject: Re: [geda-user] pcb import schematic crash, parantheses in netname
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From: John Doty <jpd AT noqsi DOT com>
In-Reply-To: <nauuv2$m6r$1@ger.gmane.org>
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 08:11:08 -0700
Message-Id: <E56E5601-2E20-4A6E-B44C-C4F04808B97F@noqsi.com>
References: <20160215215221 DOT fd472794e7b9446a243bfc40 AT gmail DOT com> <201602152055 DOT u1FKtM4K011038 AT envy DOT delorie DOT com> <20160215220938 DOT bbc7eaa59d827cd0b261ea97 AT gmail DOT com> <D3167F4D-4750-49F8-9125-BDC4937F5C69 AT noqsi DOT com> <201602152135 DOT u1FLZrw9012774 AT envy DOT delorie DOT com> <7F210DE7-0A0B-42F9-ABBE-2C2768621186 AT noqsi DOT com> <20160216081722 DOT 1065cbed6653d3da4ffc7498 AT gmail DOT com> <201602160724 DOT u1G7Ox26001785 AT envy DOT delorie DOT com> <20160216085628 DOT b70143c330cd4da98a4603d3 AT gmail DOT com> <201602160805 DOT u1G85d8c003148 AT envy DOT delorie DOT com> <20160216092912 DOT 7f7439f703b49175a21dbb1b AT gmail DOT com> <CAJXU7q_w5NunkojiCr36RHRTq0hJ+PZP1e0GumTRMoGXcvgRXQ AT mail DOT gmail DOT com> <201602161715 DOT u1GHFMBB028078 AT envy DOT delorie DOT com> <CAC4O8c9jr_b376SpuUk5HrJApP1c75oxsEBemn-i_xtC-rt-Zw AT mail DOT gmail DOT com> <201602162032 DOT u1GKWL7Y005291 AT envy DOT delorie DOT com> <CAC4O8c-ig=0UVAqagNXH_DBmC9uVQDu3Y1Gx7LBGmRCo0-_kVQ AT mail DOT gmail DOT com> <E75ECBB6-14E7-437A-B374-E0CF86BDFF1A AT noqsi DOT com> <CAC4O8c8z4JiJr=mgA+co4pX-yxu_pVsXpeKRYqneuxZNnYqh8g AT mail DOT gmail DOT com> <AB351427-7E!
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On Feb 28, 2016, at 7:07 AM, Kai-Martin Knaak <kmk AT familieknaak DOT de> =
wrote:

> John Doty wrote:
>=20
>>> as well since it will help gschem stay viable long-term,
>>=20
>> Gschem has no such problem.
>=20
> CERN chose kicad rather than gschem for their open hardware
> initiative. Same with a number of high profile open hardware projects.
> See http://kicad-pcb.org/made-with-kicad/ for some examples.

And more people choose Word than LaTeX. That doesn=92t mean that LaTeX =
isn=92t a better choice for those of us who use it, or that it should be =
more like Word (at your suggestion, I tried Lyx. Ugh. Inflexible and =
difficult. Combines the disadvantages of both approaches).

Eleven days ago, JAXA launched Hitomi (ASTRO-H) with ASICs designed with =
geda-gaf and ngspice on board. Quietest CCD measurement chains ever put =
into space.

>=20
> Please don't delude yourself int the perception everything is working
> alright, when it clearly isn=92t.

Clearly not. But there=92s a profound difference between what pcb users =
want and what geda-gaf provides. Geda-gaf's application space is far =
broader, but pcb users want something more targeted. Of course, geda-gaf =
is pretty simple and flexible, and we who script it can aim it at =
whatever target we wish. But there's a big faction here who don=92t want =
to do that: they conceive of something as hard-wired, complicated, and =
inflexible as pcb (but perhaps easier to use for *their* application).

It=92s also true that much of geda-gaf=92s intelligence is actually in =
your symbol library, so assembling a good symbol library for a =
particular purpose is a large part of the challenge. But as you know, =
this is also fraught with difficulty, because even the pcb application =
space isn=92t a coherent, monolithic thing.

>=20
>=20
>> It has been stable and productive for
>> well over a decade.
>=20
> Just like pcb. Only that in this case it is decades.

Except that if you watch this list, the most common topic is problems =
with pcb. A significant subset is problems with pcb that people expect =
geda-gaf to work around on its side of the interface. Geda-gaf is much =
healthier, and much more capable, with a far wider application space. I =
want to keep it that way. I don=92t know what the next application might =
be. I never thought I=92d do ASIC design until Osaka U. asked me to try.

>=20
>=20
>>> since pcb does have most of the users
>>=20
>> A common assertion without any data to back it up.
>=20
> Do you remember the poll I did a while ago? The results were non-
> ambiguous.

No, they were on a pcb-dominated forum. Not an unbiased sample.

>=20
>=20
>> Pcb users don=92t generally seem to want something like gschem.
>=20
> Can we get past this kindergarten style of conversation, please?

Can we appreciate that pcb-centric users and geda-gaf-centric users have =
different interests? Can we appreciate that a clean, simple interface is =
in both sides interests?

John Doty              Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd.
http://www.noqsi.com/
jpd AT noqsi DOT com



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