Mail Archives: geda-user/2016/01/26/16:08:42

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Subject: Re: [geda-user] The nature of gEDA users
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From: John Doty <jpd AT noqsi DOT com>
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Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2016 14:08:24 -0700
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On Jan 26, 2016, at 1:29 PM, Britton Kerin (britton DOT kerin AT gmail DOT com) =
[via geda-user AT delorie DOT com] <geda-user AT delorie DOT com> wrote:

> On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 10:53 AM, John Doty <jpd AT noqsi DOT com> wrote:
>> On Jan 26, 2016, at 11:04 AM, DJ Delorie <dj AT delorie DOT com> wrote:
>>>> In this day and age to say blind/buried vias are not needed is =
>>>> The fact is ANY design that requires even one FPGA, custom ASIC or
>>>> medium to large BGA needs blind/buried vias.
>>>> This is factual and is easy vetted.
>>> If you can afford a custom ASIC, you can afford a top-end EDA =
>>> and a FAB that supports high-end features.
>> Not true. In my world, I have to do much of the EDA work in the the =
proposal and feasibility study phases. Shoestring budgets, or no budget =
at all. A big company covers this by having lots going at once, but =
Noqsi Aerospace is a tiny company (3 people at the moment, the largest =
we=92ve ever been). For our current biggest project, we went through two =
years of doing a lot of work for zero pay (but now it=92s paying off). =
We couldn=92t have afforded a top-end package during those years. We =
worked with a board designer who used Osmond PCB: not high-end, but it =
has blind and buried vias. He was much faster and more accurate than the =
big-$$ contractors who use the high-end software.
>>> Frankly, PCB is not a
>>> high-end package and custom ASIC users are not our target audience.
>> But gschem can do schematic capture for ASIC even though that=92s not =
its target. The difference is that gschem doesn=92t limit what you can =
draw. It=92s quirky and limits *how* you can express what you need, but =
I=92ve never found it incapable of expressing a circuit. It gives you a =
few crude primitives and a few ways to compose more complex objects from =
simple objects. A few layers of that, and you have a 6000 component =
mixed-signal ASIC.
>> Pcb says to the user =93my way or the highway=94. Gschem says =93live =
with my quirks, and I=92ll help you do anything=94.
> Not true, I've just gone through the entire format carefully and pcb
> actually has very little per-part or per-feature overhead.  It's about
> as close to a paint program as it can be.  It can do lots of stuff,
> though admittedly often in quirky ways, just like gschem.  Your major
> gripe seems to be that you can't "draw" 3D or inter-layer features,
> because their implementation is bolted onto the fundamentally layer
> oriented design in a hard-wired way.

But it=92s not fundamentally layer-oriented. What it calls a =93layer=94 =
does not have a 1-1 correspondence to the actual physical layers.

>  It's a true complaint but not
> very useful, because adding 3D CAD would require a total rewrite with
> buckets of additional complexity.

I=92m not talking about full 3D. But, it would be nice to have *every* =
layer modeled, and things that aren=92t layers like =93outline=94 given =
a different category.

John Doty              Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd.
jpd AT noqsi DOT com

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