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Mail Archives: geda-user/2015/10/11/17:52:19

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Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2015 17:52:06 -0400
Message-Id: <201510112152.t9BLq6QT026012@envy.delorie.com>
From: DJ Delorie <dj AT delorie DOT com>
To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com
In-reply-to: <85A80DC0-59E6-40CC-8BC3-7C5D225A5A0F@noqsi.com> (message from
John Doty on Sun, 11 Oct 2015 15:17:08 -0600)
Subject: Re: [geda-user] Stop playing stupid political games with gEDA
References: <0788cca443ca40a88d6e21f1a216a759 AT net2air DOT co> <560D81CE DOT 1010800 AT jump-ing DOT de> <201510012211 DOT t91MBXPI025587 AT envy DOT delorie DOT com> <560DB972 DOT 30203 AT jump-ing DOT de> <201510012306 DOT t91N6MXc027775 AT envy DOT delorie DOT com> <3705430D-86F7-45ED-AB09-4F9F737C8000 AT sbcglobal DOT net> <201510020536 DOT t925a5PK017417 AT envy DOT delorie DOT com> <mve7ra$th$1 AT ger DOT gmane DOT org> <201510111954 DOT t9BJsXx5022095 AT envy DOT delorie DOT com> <85A80DC0-59E6-40CC-8BC3-7C5D225A5A0F AT noqsi DOT com>
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> That you consider this abuse is one of the things what arouses
> suspicion. Since developer actions impact users, a good developer
> welcomes user input.

Thank you for again twisting my words.  Am I not a good developer now,
since I sometimes like to do things my way instead of being blown like
a leaf on the wind by the desires of the users?

Please re-read what I posted and try to consider other ways you could
interpret what I said.

> Good. The last thing I want is a community of passive software
> consumers. That would surely kill gEDA for my purposes.

Again, please re-read what I posted and consider other ways you could
have interpreted it.

> Because some developers have repeatedly given some of us reason to
> distrust them.  Their values are not ours.

Likewise, your values are not ours.  Nobody's values match other
people's values, although sometimes they come close.  This is a
symmetrical condition, yet you always use it to point out that the
developers are wrong.  Why can't it be the users who are wrong
occasionally?  Why can't we just admit that people are different?

But in reality, if you don't trust the developers, your only real
option is to fork the code and do it yourself.  Enjoy.

> Development for the sake of development risks disconnection from
> user concerns. You, in particular, are tremendously talented at
> saying soothing things about preserving the versatility of the
> tools, and immediately following up with statements that show you
> don't understand their versatility at all. You say "users just want
> to get work done", but then fail to understand that the toolkit is
> what enables this.

You see one solution and assume it's the only solution.  Sorry, no
sympathy here.  You always twist my words to serve your purposes,
instead of assuming I *do* know what I'm talking about and I *do*
understand what you're saying.  Sorry, John, you're not the center of
my universe and sometimes you don't get your way.  The only way to be
the center of the universe software-wise is if you're the sole author,
and in this case you're not.  Just as developers aren't the center of
their universe and keep the needs of the users in mind, the users need
to understand that the developers are the ones who get the final say
in what the software does and it isn't always what you want.  We all
have to learn the fine art of compromise.

But my real complaint with you is that you tell me I'm wrong *before*
I get a chance to do anything, instead of giving me the benefit of the
doubt.

> The trust of users is also something that must be earned.

So is a paycheck.  What's your point?  We were talking about
priviledges, not trust.

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