Mail Archives: geda-user/2015/10/11/13:56:36
DJ Delorie wrote:
>
>> I disagree with the developer mailing list being separate. In my
>> perception, this separation creates second class citizens.
>
> We used to have just one list. The non-devs wanted the dev talk
> moved.
>
> We switched to an open dev list. It was abused by non-devs.
>
> We switched to a closed dev list. The non-devs complained.
IIRC, there was a period of time where the dev list was writable for
devs only but could be read by everyone. Consequently some topics
talked about on the dev-list were also raised and discussed on the
user list.
Then, read access to the dev-list got restricted to official
developers. In addition, posts to the user list had to be manually
approved by a list administrator. By contrast, mails sent to the user
list by developers did not need to be approved.
From a user perspective, all of this happened out of the blue. There
was no warning in advance. There was no discussion on any list, let
alone a poll.
A few months later the old user list got shut down completely. A new
mailing list was set up on a different server. The list of members was
not transferred. So the new list started empty. Again, no discussion,
no warning.
> After a while, we had no devs.
>
> Now we have one list (geda-user) for general discussion, and we
> happen to have a few other mailing lists that generally have no
> discussion on them yet seem to be a hot spot for everyone who isn't
> on them.
Make the archives public and the paranoia will vanish for the most
part.
> Just because the project is open source does not mean that everyone
> has a right to be on every mailing list.
IMHO, this is less about permission to be on a list but more about
whether or not the content of communication is accessible to the
ordinary user.
Some of the most successful open source projects make a point to
communicate transparent as possible. An example which comes to mind is
the Debian project. Their social contract asks to use use public
methods of communication for Debian-related messages. Sensitive topics
are an exception, of course.
> As for "second class citizens" it's unfortunate that you look at it
> that way, it's a negative view, that someone who has acheived a goal
> somehow diminishes all others.
It is the nature of a privilege that it diminishes those who don't
have it. There are differences, though. Whether or not the non-
privileged feel second-class depends very much on the way the
privileged act.
IMHO, the way the transition of the mailing lists was handled, is an
example of how to suggest to non-devs that they are considered second-
class. The very same changes would have created much less of an upset
if they had been done more transparently. Probably some of the
measures may not have seemed necessary in the first place because of a
reduced upset. In summery, get users involved and the don't feel
second-class.
---<)kaimartin(>---
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