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	v12-20020a5ec10c000000b0079f97b676demr23200657iol.3.1697001914995; Tue, 10
	Oct 2023 22:25:14 -0700 (PDT)
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References:	<202310100335 DOT 39A3Zn6W3486400 AT envy DOT delorie DOT com>
In-Reply-To:	<202310100335.39A3Zn6W3486400@envy.delorie.com>
From:	"Erich Heinzle (a1039181 AT gmail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com]" <geda-user AT delorie DOT com>
Date:	Wed, 11 Oct 2023 15:55:02 +1030
Message-ID:	<CAHUm0tPezanL+pU5=ebkuVLuZZLS2TjAPQAKg5qbi7d50ty3zA@mail.gmail.com>
Subject:	Re: [geda-user] is geda dead yet?
To:	geda-user AT delorie DOT com
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Reply-To:	geda-user AT delorie DOT com

There has been very active development going on in pcb-rnd and allied
projects over recent years. I tend to think of pcb-rnd as gEDA PCB on
steroids.

pcb-rnd and associated projects have regular feature, bugfix and release cycles.

Many of the deficiencies in the data model and capabilities of gEDA
PCB have been addressed in pcb-rnd, for example:

- more robust build infrastructure, allowing it to be built on a wider
variety of architectures and older systems
- a centralised HID supporting lesstif, gtk2 +/- GL, gtk4 +/- GL, and
in due course, SDL GUI backends
- multiple file format support, including
    gEDA PCB layouts
    kicad legacy
    kicad s-expression
    kicad libs
    eagle binary
    eagle XML
    eagle libs
    altium board
    protel autotrax
    file as component library
    wget component library
    BXL library
- multiple schematic format support, including lepton, gschem,
eeschema, tinycad, altium,  and sch-rnd, and associated netlist
formats
- polygons and text in footprints
- padstacks, including slot support, plated and non plated
- multiple font support, with up to 8 in one layout
- fonts support polygon and arc elements, and truetype/opentype glyphs
can be imported into a font
- seamless external autorouter support, using either standalone
freerouting or freerouting-cli, plus infrastructure for other routers,
and of course specctra DSN export/import
- openscad export, with models included for all the default library components
- parametric footprints supported directly from the library browsing dialogue
- support for scripting within pcb-rnd using multiple languages
- CAM export, allowing user defined exports of gerber and excellon
outputs with customised postfix naming, stackups, etc
- flexible board layer stackups, which includes editable positive and
negative soldermask layers, fab layers, and stencil layers, which
integrate with the padstack support.
- back-annotation (to sch-rnd), and in theory to lepton/gschem, with patching
- importing layout data within an existing layout

The standalone librnd library takes care of the HID support, and
solves the problem of ageing gtk2 dependencies, not just for pcb-rnd,
but also for camv-rnd, the associated gerber/excellon/gcode viewer,
which can properly display the slotted padstacks generated by pcb-rnd.

Similarly, moving forwards, the associated schematic editor sch-rnd
uses the same librnd library, leveraging the HID support for gtk4, and
also supports back annotation from pcb-rnd.

The main difference between gEDA PCB and pcb-rnd is slightly different
keyboard shortcut mapping to accommodate all of the additional
features, but time spent getting used to this pays off as the same
keyboard mappings apply in sch-rnd and camv-rnd.

I routinely do PCB development using the sch-rnd/pcb-rnd/camv-rnd
toolchain on 13 year old atom processor netbooks, and only resort to
an i5 laptop when I need to run openscad to display board exports, as
openscad refuses to run on the ancient GL version.

Importantly, there are no guile or python dependencies with the
sch-rnd/pcb-rnd/camv-rnd toolchain, and debian includes pcb-rnd
packages, providing some certainty for users moving forwards.

Incidentally, edakrill, the footprint/symbol/script repository for the
sch-rnd/pcb-rnd/camv-rnd toolchain already includes gedasymbols
content, which can be browsed in the footprint library dialogue if
wget support is configured.

My translate2geda utility remains popular, but the data model in gEDA
PCB limits the fidelity of conversions, particularly with regards to
polygons in footprints, text in footprints, and layers supported. The
functionality of translate2geda is pretty much baked into pcb-rnd.

Regards,

Erich


On Tue, Oct 10, 2023 at 2:14 PM DJ Delorie <dj AT delorie DOT com> wrote:
>
>
> No significant commits in years.
>
> No releases in years.
>
> Subprojects moving away, or forking.
>
> Mailing lists are oddly quiet.
>
> Risks are arising about dependencies on obsolete toolkits.
>
> Nobody seems interested in maintaining it any more.
>
> I'm contemplating pulling the plug on the 12 year old server and
> calling it a day.
>
> Anyone want to argue otherwise?  ;-)
>
> (and if you do, you'll likely end up owning it ;)
>
> DJ

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