delorie.com/archives/browse.cgi   search  
Mail Archives: geda-user/2019/01/30/13:28:48

X-Authentication-Warning: delorie.com: mail set sender to geda-user-bounces using -f
X-Recipient: geda-user AT delorie DOT com
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2019 19:27:36 +0100 (CET)
X-X-Sender: igor2 AT igor2priv
To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com
X-Debug: to=geda-user AT delorie DOT com from="gedau AT igor2 DOT repo DOT hu"
From: gedau AT igor2 DOT repo DOT hu
Subject: Re: [geda-user] Refdes bug or Master Attribute Document on the Wiki
needs update.
In-Reply-To: <4739A346-6DB4-4250-965C-13AA19863969@noqsi.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1901301903160.21900@igor2priv>
References: <9ed059c0-f3c5-1482-169b-f8f1119f3208 AT fastmail DOT com> <alpine DOT DEB DOT 2 DOT 20 DOT 1901301419360 DOT 1543 AT nimbus> <5BC4365D-FBD0-4495-806B-C30BA710D31B AT noqsi DOT com> <alpine DOT DEB DOT 2 DOT 00 DOT 1901301630000 DOT 21900 AT igor2priv> <4739A346-6DB4-4250-965C-13AA19863969 AT noqsi DOT com>
User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (DEB 1167 2008-08-23)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Reply-To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com
Errors-To: nobody AT delorie DOT com
X-Mailing-List: geda-user AT delorie DOT com
X-Unsubscribes-To: listserv AT delorie DOT com

  This message is in MIME format.  The first part should be readable text,
  while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.

--0-1657401018-1548872856=:21900
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE



On Wed, 30 Jan 2019, John Doty wrote:

>
>      On Jan 30, 2019, at 12:23 PM, gedau AT igor2 DOT repo DOT hu wrote:
>
>So please don't confuse the level of cooperation pcb-rnd gets from
>your=C2=A0
>favorite tool with pcb-rnd's flexibility. Please don't try to define
>what=C2=A0
>is not a goal of pcb-rnd: you have no role in pcb-rnd, you can't set
>or=C2=A0
>change our goals. Please don't make up non-existing parts ("own
>schematic=C2=A0
>capture [of pcb-rnd]") and don't spread that as if it was a fact.
>
>
>You call that non-existing part cschem.=20

cschem is not part of pcb-rnd. It's as separate from pcb-rnd as lepton is.=
=20
There was no plan ever to make cschem part of pcb-rnd or pcb-rnd part of=20
cschem. Cschem will be a schematic capture tool of its own right - it will=
=20
work with pcb-rnd but it won't be limited to that, it will support=20
multiple workflows and formats.

>Why not Lepton? I understand that
>pcb-rnd is about *downstream* flexibility, but Lepton is the upstream kit

No, pcb-rnd is about flexibility in all directions, not only down. Down is=
=20
only one of the directions. We are also flexible up (back annotation) and=
=20
sideways and in random directions (e.g. mechanical cads).

We do have two lepton -> pcb-rnd flows at the moment: the old pcb export=20
(if lepton didn't change it) and the new tEDAx export (thanks to Bdale).

There is no plan to remove the tEDAx flow from pcb-rnd, so I don't see=20
what you mean by "why not lepton" part.=20

>intended to support every downstream flow. Your flexibility is designed to
>funnel everything into pcb-rnd, while what I need is support of multiple
>back ends.

No, this is false again. If I wanted funnel everything into pcb-rnd, I=20
would say we want a schemtics editor within pcb-rnd and we wouldn't have=20
plugins that export to protel/autotrax or kicad. We would then have only=20
code that imports from everywhere, trying to lock users in. But we don't=20
do that, we are trying to provide a tool that does whatever part of the=20
pcb layout job between whatever input and whatever output.

So what we have instead of that, is an open toolkit, that doesn't=20
necessarily want to be the center or only tool of your workflow, but wants=
=20
to provide you whatever you need around editing/massaging PCBs. Every bit=
=20
of pcb-rnd is about that.

And no, we do not limit this to a schematics->pcb flow. I see no reason to=
=20
limit ourselves to only that one flow, as there are many other flows out=20
there.

I also don't funnel in _everyting_: there is a clear scope, and even if=20
there is some user pressure to some popular ideas (such as "more modern=20
gui", "3d support built in", "schematic capture built in", "more advanced=
=20
built-in autorouter"), I simply say no, because those things are just out=
=20
of scope. I say these things have to be done outside of pcb-rnd. We do one=
=20
thing, and we do that well: pcb layouts. It has very many aspects, from=20
having an efficient GUI editor to speaking dozens of file formats and we=20
are trying to do most of those aspects.=20

But at the end it's one thing, PCB layout, with a 100% clear scope.

>The TESS electronics used three different layout organizations at
>different stages of the project, using three different tools.

See my point? pcb-rnd is strong in that. When they can't load=20
organization A's kicad board at organization B's protel/autotrax, that's=20
where you jump in with a Makefile that uses pcb-rnd to convert. No sch=20
involved. No GUI PCB editing involved. Not funneling anything in, not=20
locking in users.=20

Or when kicad is a PITA to use for exporting pngs automatically from a=20
Makefile, you can do the export from pcb-rnd that as -x.

Multiple users, including me, use pcb-rnd for doing non-PCB 2d=20
editing, because it's small, fast, easy to use, has enough precision (and=
=20
lately even good 2d drafting commands).




--0-1657401018-1548872856=:21900--

- Raw text -


  webmaster     delorie software   privacy  
  Copyright © 2019   by DJ Delorie     Updated Jul 2019