Mail Archives: geda-user/2017/02/19/15:03:21
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On 19 Feb 2017 19:51, "Chad Parker (parker DOT charles AT gmail DOT com) [via
geda-user AT delorie DOT com]" <geda-user AT delorie DOT com> wrote:
The problem with the code right now is that pins and pads don't actually
exist on layers, they are separate. So, turning off a layer has no effect
on pins or pads. Does your 3D stuff also rework that aspect of
pins/pads/vias and the layer code?
No, but it reworks the rendering stack extensively... for 3D view, it
renders much more like a physical exporter than the traditional "gui"
pipeline imposed by draw.c
Any guess as to when it will arrive?
Not exactly, but it is certainly high on my non - work related goals list
for this year to see that code merged. (It has been out of mainline way too
long).
I can probably point you to a few bits and pieces where I could use help
and code review if you like. I'm mid-attempt at rebasing the old patch
series against HEAD, and one area which could really help (as I'm currently
not designing any boards), is test-driving the result to validate the
rebase.
Peter
--Chad
On Sun, Feb 19, 2017 at 2:25 PM, Peter Clifton (
petercjclifton AT googlemail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com] <
geda-user AT delorie DOT com> wrote:
> Hi Chad,
>
> (Moving to geda-user as this is not directly answering the OP question)
>
> The later 3D stuff will help when it lands. There is a more physical view
> mode where turning off individual layers also hides any features on that
> layer such as pads etc..
>
> Otoh... the fact OP is having issues makes me wonder if they have GL
> enabled or not. Transparency helps.
>
> Peter
>
> Peter
>
>
> On 19 Feb 2017 19:19, "Chad Parker (parker DOT charles AT gmail DOT com) [via
> geda-help AT delorie DOT com]" <geda-help AT delorie DOT com> wrote:
>
> It took me a sec, but I figured out what he means. He's turning off the
> pins/pads so that they're not in the way while he's routing on inner
> layers.
>
> The problem is that when you turn off the pins/pads, it turns them off for
> all layers. On the inner layers a plated thru-hole will (often) have a
> circuilar pad around it, not to mention that there is actually a hole
> through the board. With pins/pads off, there is no indication of this this
> at all and you can route a trace straight through a through-hole with out
> realizing it (or on the top or bottom layer too, actually).
>
> Hence the feature's he's asking for. If you could turn off surface mount
> pads without turning off pins, then this wouldn't be a problem. Or, if we
> had an "online-DRC" that would prevent you from drawing things that
> violated design rules, it would also prevent you from doing this.
>
> The quickest fix for this, I think, is to change things slightly so that
> pins and vias are grouped together for visibility and pads are their own
> separate "layer". The right way to do this probably involves reworking the
> layer system, but this is a pretty quick hack that should work for now.
>
> I opened a bug report on LaunchPad: https://bugs.launchpad.net/pcb
> /+bug/1666052
>
> --Chad
>
> On Sat, Feb 18, 2017 at 3:25 AM, Smilie (smilie AT posteo DOT de) [via
> geda-help AT delorie DOT com] <geda-help AT delorie DOT com> wrote:
>
>> I think, PCB need some additional features:
>>
>>
>> 1. split PIN/PAD Layer in two Buttons PIN and PAD.
>> 2. make it possible, that the "auto enforce DRC clearance" works also
>> while moving lines.
>>
>> 3. the algorithm for "auto enforce DRC clearance" could be modified,
>> that the line will be lay around the barrier?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Am Wed, 15 Feb 2017 15:28:44 +0000
>> schrieb "Peter Clifton (petercjclifton AT googlemail DOT com) [via
>> geda-help AT delorie DOT com]" <geda-help AT delorie DOT com>:
>>
>> > I think I'll have to try that to understand properly; but if you mean
>> > - you accidentally shorted against pins which you had switched off
>> > visibility for... Not sure how to avoid that fully.
>> >
>> > Perhaps need to separate the view controls a little more. In my later
>> > 3D stuff (available on repo.or.cz), in 3D view turning off any layer
>> > also hides things like copper pads on that layer.
>> >
>> > Peter
>> >
>> > Peter
>> >
>> > On 15 Feb 2017 15:19, "Smilie (smilie AT posteo DOT de) [via
>> > geda-help AT delorie DOT com]" <geda-help AT delorie DOT com> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Am Wed, 15 Feb 2017 10:48:02 +0000
>> > > schrieb "Peter Clifton (petercjclifton AT googlemail DOT com) [via
>> > > geda-help AT delorie DOT com]" <geda-help AT delorie DOT com>:
>> > >
>> > > > Any chance you can post a screenshot of what you describe?
>> > > >
>> > > > (Imagebin.ca or similar if the files are big?)
>> > > >
>> > > > On 15 Feb 2017 10:45, "Smilie (smilie AT posteo DOT de) [via
>> > > > geda-help AT delorie DOT com]" <geda-help AT delorie DOT com> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > > Hello guys,
>> > > > >
>> > > > > if i have an Jumper connected through all layers.
>> > > > > But if i disable the view of all layers, apart from a inner
>> > > > > signal-layer, the contacts of the connected through is not
>> > > > > visible. This is in my opinion a bug.
>> > > > > Or what is this feature for?
>> > > > >
>> > > > > lg
>> > > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > OK, i see the Failure, but i will explain the situation.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Step by step:
>> > >
>> > > 1. create a new pcb.
>> > >
>> > > 2. Load a Jumper1 and place it to the board.
>> > >
>> > > 3. Take also some SMD-footprints an place it free over the board.
>> > >
>> > > Now you wont draw a line in a (signal) middle layer, but the
>> > > SMD-Footprints are worry. Because this you make some layers
>> > > invisible.
>> > >
>> > > 4. Now you make the pins/pads invisible. Or what?
>> > >
>> > > But, you can not free draw the middle layer, because you have
>> > > collisions with footprints like Jumper1.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>>
>>
>
>
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<div dir=3D"auto"><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gma=
il_quote">On 19 Feb 2017 19:51, "Chad Parker (<a href=3D"mailto:parker=
.charles AT gmail DOT com">parker DOT charles AT gmail DOT com</a>) [via <a href=3D"mailto:ge=
da-user AT delorie DOT com">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>]" <<a href=3D"mailto=
:geda-user AT delorie DOT com">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>> wrote:<br type=3D"att=
ribution"><blockquote class=3D"quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-lef=
t:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>The problem with t=
he code right now is that pins and pads don't actually exist on layers,=
they are separate. So, turning off a layer has no effect on pins or pads. =
Does your 3D stuff also rework that aspect of pins/pads/vias and the layer =
code?</div></div></blockquote></div></div></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div=
><div dir=3D"auto">No, but it reworks the rendering stack extensively... fo=
r 3D view, it renders much more like a physical exporter than the tradition=
al "gui" pipeline imposed by draw.c</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></=
div><div dir=3D"auto"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"=
><blockquote class=3D"quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #cc=
c solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div> Any guess as to when it wi=
ll arrive?<font color=3D"#888888"><br></font></div></div></blockquote></div=
></div></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Not exactly, but=
it is certainly high on my non - work related goals list for this year to =
see that code merged. (It has been out of mainline way too long).</div><div=
dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">I can probably point you to a few=
bits and pieces where I could use help and code review if you like. I'=
m mid-attempt at rebasing the old patch series against HEAD, and one area w=
hich could really help (as I'm currently not designing any boards), is =
test-driving the result to validate the rebase.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br>=
</div><div dir=3D"auto">Peter</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"=
auto"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote cla=
ss=3D"quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-=
left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><font color=3D"#888888"><br></font></div><f=
ont color=3D"#888888">--Chad<br></font></div><div class=3D"elided-text"><di=
v class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Feb 19, 2017=
at 2:25 PM, Peter Clifton (<a href=3D"mailto:petercjclifton AT googlemail DOT com=
" target=3D"_blank">petercjclifton AT googlemail DOT com</a><wbr>) [via <a href=3D=
"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com" target=3D"_blank">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>]=
<span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com" target=3D"_=
blank">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"=
gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-=
left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto">Hi Chad,<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D=
"auto">(Moving to geda-user as this is not directly answering the OP questi=
on)<br><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">The later 3D stuff wil=
l help when it lands. There is a more physical view mode where turning off =
individual layers also hides any features on that layer such as pads etc..<=
/div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Otoh... the fact OP is h=
aving issues makes me wonder if they have GL enabled or not. Transparency h=
elps.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Peter</div><div di=
r=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Peter</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></d=
iv></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On=
19 Feb 2017 19:19, "Chad Parker (<a href=3D"mailto:parker DOT charles AT gma=
il.com" target=3D"_blank">parker DOT charles AT gmail DOT com</a>) [via <a href=3D"mai=
lto:geda-help AT delorie DOT com" target=3D"_blank">geda-help AT delorie DOT com</a>]&quo=
t; <<a href=3D"mailto:geda-help AT delorie DOT com" target=3D"_blank">geda-help=
@delorie.com</a>> wrote:<br type=3D"attribution"><blockquote class=3D"m_=
-1478200450418684039m_6660508985195357959quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;=
border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><di=
v>It took me a sec, but I figured out what he means.=C2=A0He's turning =
off the pins/pads so that they're not in the way while he's routing=
on inner layers. <br><br>The
problem is that when you turn off the pins/pads, it turns them off for=20
all layers. On the inner layers a plated thru-hole will (often) have a=20
circuilar pad around it, not to mention that there is actually a hole=20
through the board. With pins/pads off, there is no indication of this=20
this at all and you can route a trace straight through a through-hole=20
with out realizing it (or on the top or bottom layer too, actually).<br><br=
></div>Hence the feature's he's asking for. If you could turn off s=
urface mount pads without turning off pins, then this wouldn't be a pro=
blem. Or, if we had an "online-DRC" that would prevent you from d=
rawing things that violated design rules, it would also prevent you from do=
ing this.<br><br></div>The quickest fix for this, I think, is to change thi=
ngs slightly so that pins and vias are grouped together for visibility and =
pads are their own separate "layer". The right way to do this pro=
bably involves reworking the layer system, but this is a pretty quick hack =
that should work for now. <br><br></div><div>I opened a bug report on Launc=
hPad: <a href=3D"https://bugs.launchpad.net/pcb/+bug/1666052" target=3D"_bl=
ank">https://bugs.launchpad.net/pcb<wbr>/+bug/1666052</a><br></div><br>--Ch=
ad<br></div><div class=3D"m_-1478200450418684039m_6660508985195357959elided=
-text"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Fe=
b 18, 2017 at 3:25 AM, Smilie (<a href=3D"mailto:smilie AT posteo DOT de" target=
=3D"_blank">smilie AT posteo DOT de</a>) [via <a href=3D"mailto:geda-help AT delorie.=
com" target=3D"_blank">geda-help AT delorie DOT com</a>] <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a =
href=3D"mailto:geda-help AT delorie DOT com" target=3D"_blank">geda-help AT delorie DOT c=
om</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"marg=
in:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I think, PCB nee=
d some additional features:<br>
<br>
<br>
1. split PIN/PAD Layer in two Buttons PIN and PAD.<br>
2. make it possible, that the "auto enforce DRC clearance" works =
also<br>
while moving lines.<br>
<br>
3. the algorithm for "auto enforce DRC clearance" could be modifi=
ed,<br>
that the line will be lay around the barrier?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Am Wed, 15 Feb 2017 15:28:44 +0000<br>
<div class=3D"m_-1478200450418684039m_6660508985195357959m_6021418697146987=
89HOEnZb"><div class=3D"m_-1478200450418684039m_6660508985195357959m_602141=
869714698789h5">schrieb "Peter Clifton (<a href=3D"mailto:petercjclift=
on AT googlemail DOT com" target=3D"_blank">petercjclifton AT googlemail DOT com</a><wbr>=
) [via<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:geda-help AT delorie DOT com" target=3D"_blank">geda-help AT delori=
e.com</a>]" <<a href=3D"mailto:geda-help AT delorie DOT com" target=3D"_bl=
ank">geda-help AT delorie DOT com</a>>:<br>
<br>
> I think I'll have to try that to understand properly; but if you m=
ean<br>
> - you accidentally shorted against pins which you had switched off<br>
> visibility for... Not sure how to avoid that fully.<br>
><br>
> Perhaps need to separate the view controls a little more. In my later<=
br>
> 3D stuff (available on <a href=3D"http://repo.or.cz" rel=3D"noreferrer=
" target=3D"_blank">repo.or.cz</a>), in 3D view turning off any layer<br>
> also hides things like copper pads on that layer.<br>
><br>
> Peter<br>
><br>
> Peter<br>
><br>
> On 15 Feb 2017 15:19, "Smilie (<a href=3D"mailto:smilie AT posteo DOT de=
" target=3D"_blank">smilie AT posteo DOT de</a>) [via<br>
> <a href=3D"mailto:geda-help AT delorie DOT com" target=3D"_blank">geda-help AT d=
elorie.com</a>]" <<a href=3D"mailto:geda-help AT delorie DOT com" target=
=3D"_blank">geda-help AT delorie DOT com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> > Am Wed, 15 Feb 2017 10:48:02 +0000<br>
> > schrieb "Peter Clifton (<a href=3D"mailto:petercjclifton AT goo=
glemail.com" target=3D"_blank">petercjclifton AT googlemail DOT com</a><wbr>) [via=
<br>
> > <a href=3D"mailto:geda-help AT delorie DOT com" target=3D"_blank">geda-h=
elp AT delorie DOT com</a>]" <<a href=3D"mailto:geda-help AT delorie DOT com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">geda-help AT delorie DOT com</a>>:<br>
> ><br>
> > >=C2=A0 Any chance you can post a screenshot of what you descr=
ibe?<br>
> > ><br>
> > > (Imagebin.ca or similar if the files are big?)<br>
> > ><br>
> > > On 15 Feb 2017 10:45, "Smilie (<a href=3D"mailto:smilie=
@posteo.de" target=3D"_blank">smilie AT posteo DOT de</a>) [via<br>
> > > <a href=3D"mailto:geda-help AT delorie DOT com" target=3D"_blank">g=
eda-help AT delorie DOT com</a>]" <<a href=3D"mailto:geda-help AT delorie DOT com=
" target=3D"_blank">geda-help AT delorie DOT com</a>> wrote:<br>
> > ><br>
> > > > Hello guys,<br>
> > > ><br>
> > > > if i have an Jumper connected through all layers.<br>
> > > > But if i disable the view of all layers, apart from a i=
nner<br>
> > > > signal-layer, the contacts of the connected through is =
not<br>
> > > > visible. This is in my opinion a bug.<br>
> > > > Or what is this feature for?<br>
> > > ><br>
> > > > lg<br>
> > > ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > OK, i see the Failure, but i will explain the situation.<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > Step by step:<br>
> ><br>
> > 1. create a new pcb.<br>
> ><br>
> > 2. Load a Jumper1 and place it to the board.<br>
> ><br>
> > 3. Take also some SMD-footprints an place it free over the board.=
<br>
> ><br>
> > Now you wont draw a line in a (signal) middle layer, but the<br>
> > SMD-Footprints are worry. Because this you make some layers<br>
> > invisible.<br>
> ><br>
> > 4. Now you make the pins/pads invisible. Or what?<br>
> ><br>
> > But, you can not free draw the middle layer, because you have<br>
> > collisions with footprints like Jumper1.<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
</div></blockquote></div><br></div>
</blockquote></div><br></div>
</div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div>
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