Mail Archives: geda-user/2016/11/18/14:19:44
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| In-Reply-To: | <201610241802.18427.gheskett@shentel.net>
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| <de806658-f4c4-2ed2-0fa4-a700c8cbd9f7 AT neurotica DOT com> <201610241802 DOT 18427 DOT gheskett AT shentel DOT net>
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| From: | "Russell Nelson (russnelson AT gmail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com]" <geda-user AT delorie DOT com>
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| Date: | Fri, 18 Nov 2016 14:16:47 -0500
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| Message-ID: | <CA+uY=MQB-BZ8i0qrEwDe2nfDjLTb4JmXuxtCWRxG0wi_WWhhwg@mail.gmail.com>
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| Subject: | Re: [geda-user] COSMAC ELF in gEDA and the power rail problem for
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| logic ICs
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Big-ass transistors. "Gimme all the alpha particles you want, I'm not
flipping my bits!" The COSMAC Elf was my first computer. 1802 definitely a
strange processor. I used one in a stereo audio controller that I used for
many years.
On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 6:02 PM, Gene Heskett (gheskett AT shentel DOT net) [via
geda-user AT delorie DOT com] <geda-user AT delorie DOT com> wrote:
> On Monday 24 October 2016 17:18:24 Dave McGuire (mcguire AT neurotica DOT com)
> [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com] wrote:
>
> > Very, very cool story!
> >
> > The 1802 is far from mainstream of course, but it's still a current
> > product, made by Intersil. The only ones still made are mil-spec,
> > which oughtta tell us something.
> >
> > -Dave
>
> Yes, its ability to work in a radiation environmemt that would cook any
> of us in just a few minutes is the reason. The deep space stuff we have
> out there is all running on 1802 family stuff.
> >
> > On 10/24/2016 04:55 PM, Bob Paddock (graceindustries AT gmail DOT com) [via
> >
> > geda-user AT delorie DOT com] wrote:
> > > On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 9:39 AM, Dave McGuire
> > > (mcguire AT neurotica DOT com)
> > >
> > > [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com] <geda-user AT delorie DOT com> wrote:
> > >> On 10/23/2016 10:24 PM, Atommann (atommann AT gmail DOT com) [via
> > >>
> > >> geda-user AT delorie DOT com] wrote:
> > >>> Recently I redraw[1] the cosmac elf microcomputer which was from
> > >>> the Popular Electronics magazine 1976 August issue. And soldered
> > >>> one[2], it works right away!
> > >>
> > >> Hi! I don't have any suggestions for your problem, but I just
> > >> have to speak up about the Elf.
> > >
> > > Here is some 1802 trivia you'll not find anyplace else.
> > >
> > > The predecessor to the 1802 was a two chip set the 1800/1801
> > > available only in ceramic packages.
> > > It was used in some early satellites. Perhaps some other Government
> > > projects.
> > >
> > > As this predates my involvement I don't know the details, some how
> > > what would become my boss in the future at Matric Limited,
> > > got a hold of one of these chip sets, probably still has it hidden
> > > away someplace to his wife's dismay; I expect I'll be the one
> > > cleaning out this stuff someday after Lee's passing no one else
> > > would know what it was or where it was stashed in the old building.
> > >
> > > Matric got a contract form the government to build a Automatic Roof
> > > Bolter for Coal Mines as a subcontract to Ingersoll Rand.
> > > So there is some government connection back to RCA, this is the part
> > > I'm missing, which got Lee the 1800/1801 chips.
> > >
> > > Lee designs a new Coal Mine control for a different contract about
> > > the time the 1802 is released.
> > > After the ELF came out, I was hired on to write software for the
> > > 1802 for the new 1802 based control.
> > >
> > > Everyone is aware of the impact of the 1802 after the Popular
> > > Electronics article comes out.
> > > What people are not aware of is how it died. I don't know what
> > > happened internally at RCA.
> > >
> > > RCA was bought out, Harris etc. Same people setting at the same
> > > desks with new name on the door of the company for a while.
> > >
> > > RCA had a product line called MicroBoards, which were a 44-pin edge
> > > card bus and a line of industrial membrane keyboards under the name
> > > Cardinal Technology.
> > >
> > > The controls that ran the sub Alvin from Woods Hole Oceanographic
> > > Institution that found the Titanic was using these boards, because
> > > the CMOS 1802 and rest of the 4000 family logic was the only thing
> > > they found that would work through the dew point as the sub
> > > descended at that time.
> > >
> > > Matric bought out the MicroBoard line from RCA (not sure who
> > > actually owned it at this point.) I flew to New Jersey to learn the
> > > testing procedures and over see the transfer for the board line.
> > > After awhile Matric also took over the keyboard line and Matric
> > > ended up with all of the remaining inventory of the 18xx chips for
> > > IO, Graphics, a few 1802, some 1805 (1805 had the 1802 stack code
> > > hard-coded and a couple of other minor changes that escape me right
> > > now) etc.
> > >
> > > After several years Matric retired the MicroBoard line and a few
> > > more years retired the keyboard line.
> > >
> > > After a few more years setting the the warehouse at Matric all of
> > > the related stuff including the chips were moved to a storage locker
> > > where accountant kept their YEARS of paper work. All just tossed
> > > in. It was no fun the one time I had to go find some 18xx chip to
> > > fix something.
> > >
> > > After I left Matric for my current gig (Resume anyone? Feel it is
> > > time to move on and do something different), so this part is second
> > > hand:
> > >
> > > Someone from the US State Department showed up at Matric with a
> > > Cardinal keyboard in hand saying "You *WILL* fix this" (they had be
> > > told on the phone that the line was no longer supported).
> > >
> > > The keyboard failed, I don't know why, and needed some of the chips
> > > from the storage locker as no one else in the world had them.
> > >
> > > The keyboard controlled a Nuclear Power Plant in Japan. Which one I
> > > do not know. No one wanted to do the paper work to use a new
> > > keyboard to run the plant.
> > > So *THAT* keyboard had to be repaired, which it was, it could not
> > > even be replaced with an identical (not that there were any)
> > > keyboard.
> > >
> > > So the last vestiges of the once proud 1802 family are decaying away
> > > in a storage locker to the best of my knowledge (perhaps someone has
> > > cleaned it out and trashed everything by now, I do not know)...
>
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
>
--001a1141e462d0c9be05419825f1
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr">Big-ass transistors. "Gimme all the alpha particles y=
ou want, I'm not flipping my bits!" The COSMAC Elf was my first co=
mputer. 1802 definitely a strange processor. I used one in a stereo audio c=
ontroller that I used for many years.</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><=
div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 6:02 PM, Gene Heskett (<a=
href=3D"mailto:gheskett AT shentel DOT net">gheskett AT shentel DOT net</a>) [via <a hre=
f=3D"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>] <span dir=3D"=
ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com" target=3D"_blank">geda-us=
er AT delorie DOT com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" s=
tyle=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">On M=
onday 24 October 2016 17:18:24 Dave McGuire (<a href=3D"mailto:mcguire AT neur=
otica.com">mcguire AT neurotica DOT com</a>)<br>
<span class=3D"">[via <a href=3D"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com">geda-user AT de=
lorie.com</a>] wrote:<br>
<br>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0Very, very cool story!<br>
><br>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0The 1802 is far from mainstream of course, but it's st=
ill a current<br>
> product, made by Intersil.=C2=A0 The only ones still made are mil-spec=
,<br>
> which oughtta tell us something.<br>
><br>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0-Dave<br>
<br>
</span>Yes, its ability to work in a radiation environmemt that would cook =
any<br>
of us in just a few minutes is the reason.=C2=A0 The deep space stuff we ha=
ve<br>
out there is all running on 1802 family stuff.<br>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5">><br>
> On 10/24/2016 04:55 PM, Bob Paddock (<a href=3D"mailto:graceindustries=
@gmail.com">graceindustries AT gmail DOT com</a>) [via<br>
><br>
> <a href=3D"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>] wr=
ote:<br>
> > On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 9:39 AM, Dave McGuire<br>
> > (<a href=3D"mailto:mcguire AT neurotica DOT com">mcguire AT neurotica DOT com</=
a>)<br>
> ><br>
> > [via <a href=3D"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com">geda-user AT delorie DOT c=
om</a>] <<a href=3D"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com">geda-user AT delorie DOT com<=
/a>> wrote:<br>
> >> On 10/23/2016 10:24 PM, Atommann (<a href=3D"mailto:atommann@=
gmail.com">atommann AT gmail DOT com</a>) [via<br>
> >><br>
> >> <a href=3D"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com">geda-user AT delorie DOT co=
m</a>] wrote:<br>
> >>> Recently I redraw[1] the cosmac elf microcomputer which w=
as from<br>
> >>> the Popular Electronics magazine 1976 August issue. And s=
oldered<br>
> >>> one[2], it works right away!<br>
> >><br>
> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0Hi!=C2=A0 I don't have any suggestions for yo=
ur problem, but I just<br>
> >> have to speak up about the Elf.<br>
> ><br>
> > Here is some 1802 trivia you'll not find anyplace else.<br>
> ><br>
> > The predecessor to the 1802 was a two chip set the 1800/1801<br>
> > available only in ceramic packages.<br>
> > It was used in some early satellites.=C2=A0 Perhaps some other Go=
vernment<br>
> > projects.<br>
> ><br>
> > As this predates my involvement I don't know the details, som=
e how<br>
> > what would become my boss in the future at Matric Limited,<br>
> >=C2=A0 got a hold of one of these chip sets, probably still has it=
hidden<br>
> > away someplace to his wife's dismay; I expect I'll be the=
one<br>
> > cleaning out this stuff someday after Lee's passing no one el=
se<br>
> > would know what it was or where it was stashed in the old buildin=
g.<br>
> ><br>
> > Matric got a contract form the government to build a Automatic Ro=
of<br>
> > Bolter for Coal Mines as a subcontract to Ingersoll Rand.<br>
> > So there is some government connection back to RCA, this is the p=
art<br>
> > I'm missing, which got Lee the 1800/1801 chips.<br>
> ><br>
> > Lee designs a new Coal Mine control for a different contract abou=
t<br>
> > the time the 1802 is released.<br>
> > After the ELF came out, I was hired on to write software for the<=
br>
> > 1802 for the new 1802 based control.<br>
> ><br>
> > Everyone is aware of the impact of the 1802 after the Popular<br>
> > Electronics article comes out.<br>
> > What people are not aware of is how it died.=C2=A0 I don't kn=
ow what<br>
> > happened internally at RCA.<br>
> ><br>
> > RCA was bought out, Harris etc.=C2=A0 Same people setting at the =
same<br>
> > desks with new name on the door of the company for a while.<br>
> ><br>
> > RCA had a product line called MicroBoards, which were a 44-pin ed=
ge<br>
> > card bus and a line of industrial membrane keyboards under the na=
me<br>
> > Cardinal Technology.<br>
> ><br>
> > The controls that ran the sub=C2=A0 Alvin from Woods Hole Oceanog=
raphic<br>
> > Institution that found the Titanic was using these boards, becaus=
e<br>
> > the CMOS 1802 and rest of the 4000 family logic was the only thin=
g<br>
> > they found that would work through the dew point as the sub<br>
> > descended at that time.<br>
> ><br>
> > Matric bought out the MicroBoard line from RCA (not sure who<br>
> > actually owned it at this point.) I flew to New Jersey to learn t=
he<br>
> > testing procedures and over see the transfer for the board line.<=
br>
> > After awhile Matric also took over the keyboard line and Matric<b=
r>
> > ended up with all of the remaining inventory of the 18xx chips fo=
r<br>
> > IO, Graphics, a few 1802, some 1805 (1805 had the 1802 stack code=
<br>
> > hard-coded and a couple of other minor changes that escape me rig=
ht<br>
> > now) etc.<br>
> ><br>
> > After several years Matric retired the MicroBoard line and a few<=
br>
> > more years retired the keyboard line.<br>
> ><br>
> > After a few more years setting the the warehouse at Matric all of=
<br>
> > the related stuff including the chips were moved to a storage loc=
ker<br>
> > where accountant kept their YEARS of paper work.=C2=A0 All just t=
ossed<br>
> > in.=C2=A0 It was no fun the one time I had to go find some 18xx c=
hip to<br>
> > fix something.<br>
> ><br>
> > After I left Matric for my current gig (Resume anyone?=C2=A0 Feel=
it is<br>
> > time to move on and do something different), so this part is seco=
nd<br>
> > hand:<br>
> ><br>
> > Someone from the US State Department showed up at Matric with a<b=
r>
> > Cardinal keyboard in hand saying "You *WILL* fix this" =
(they had be<br>
> > told on the phone that the line was no longer supported).<br>
> ><br>
> > The keyboard failed, I don't know why, and needed some of the=
chips<br>
> > from the storage locker as no one else in the world had them.<br>
> ><br>
> > The keyboard controlled a Nuclear Power Plant in Japan.=C2=A0 Whi=
ch one I<br>
> > do not know.=C2=A0 No one wanted to do the paper work to use a ne=
w<br>
> > keyboard to run the plant.<br>
> > So *THAT* keyboard had to be repaired, which it was, it could not=
<br>
> > even be replaced with an identical (not that there were any)<br>
> > keyboard.<br>
> ><br>
> > So the last vestiges of the once proud 1802 family are decaying a=
way<br>
> > in a storage locker to the best of my knowledge (perhaps someone =
has<br>
> > cleaned it out and trashed everything by now, I do not know)...<b=
r>
<br>
<br>
</div></div><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5">Cheers, Gene Heskett<br=
>
--<br>
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:<br>
=C2=A0soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."<br>
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)<br>
Genes Web page <<a href=3D"http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene" rel=3D"no=
referrer" target=3D"_blank">http://geneslinuxbox.net:<wbr>6309/gene</a>>=
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
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