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From:	"Evan Foss (evanfoss AT gmail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com]" <geda-user AT delorie DOT com>
Date:	Tue, 26 Jul 2016 22:43:13 +0000
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Subject:	[geda-user] Re: Why we lost another user? -> Re: Why we just lost some users? ->
	Re: [geda-user] Stay or go?
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On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 5:22 PM, James Battat (jbattat AT wellesley DOT edu)
[via geda-user AT delorie DOT com] <geda-user AT delorie DOT com> wrote:
>

<snip>
(removed my own text)

> I can add one point of view here.  When I was a brand-new user (started
> using gEDA in 2014 — I still consider myself a “quite new" user), I found
> the following frustrating when trying out gEDA:
>
> * Difficulty to install on my machine (Mac) (e.g. here and here)
>   Eventually, but reluctantly, I gave up and settled on running gschem/pcb
> in a linux virtual machine.
>   Once I chose to switch though, the linux install was painless.

Ok should be have a livecd/usb, virtualbox or vmware image for people
to play with?

> * Lack of coherent documentation for new users like myself to get off the
> ground

Should we have a manual that breaks down things for people who want
the simple answer? Basically instead of trying to explain each tool in
the chain but just how to use them in a flow?

<How do I make a schematic with geda?>
<How do I make a schematic with geda and then turn it into a netlist
to simulate it?>
<How do I simulate a netlist with ngspice?>
<How do I simulate a netlist with gnucap?>
<How do I simulate a netlist with xyce?>
<How do I make a schematic with geda and then a board layout with pcb?
<How do I make a schematic with geda and then a board with pcb using a
Makefile to automate it?>
<How do I make a schematic in geda to make a board with pcb and a
netlist to simulate it?>

>   For example, I had been following the recommendation to use gsch2pcb
> (which is the first listed tutorial for how to start using gEDA) for more
> than a year before I stumbled upon the “Import Schematic” feature in pcb.
> And, IIRC, the documentation for that is scattered throughout mailing list
> posts.

Can you explain what was in coherent. Was gEDA's stuff not matching up
with PCB's documentation or was it the wiki's tendency to point people
off at example projects rather than a specific part of the manual? I
want to really understand how we led you down a rabbit hole.

> * Lack of searchable archive of the mailing list(?)  Maybe there is one, but
> I haven’t found it.
>   As a result, I often stumble across useful mailing list content by
> accident when doing somewhat related google searches (e.g. the Import
> Schematic example above).

Ok.
1. Could you make a list of the useful stuff?
2. What made it useful. Was the content unique or was it just better
at explaining things?
3. Could we fold the questions it answered into a FAQ or other document?

> * No straightforward way to share a design (with relevant
> symbols/footprints) to collaborators.
>   see e.g. recent discussion on that topic.

Ok. Could that be another item in the list of potential documentation
I made earlier
<How to bundle a schematic for distribution>
<How to bundle a pcb for distribution>
<How to bundle a simulation for distribution>

> I work at a college, and the issues above pose a barrier to collaborating

OT: I was there a little while ago. My gf was there in her reunion,
she likes having reasons to visit the place. If you want to meet in
real life to talk about how geda could be different let me know.

> with students who are new to EDA.  i.e. it makes it hard to “bring new users
> into the fold.”  In contrast, there is ample Eagle/KiCad documentation, and
> the students prefer to start there.

Ok. I will look at that stuff and ask more questions of you later. I
want to understand exactly what the difference is.

> Since 2014, I've posted many questions to geda-help and geda-user, and the
> responses are often helpful and quick, and I really appreciate that.
> But sometimes it’s clear that there just isn’t a straightforward solution to
> the issue, and often no sense that a solution is coming soon.

Yes. I understand that.

> Some examples:
>
> * Bug in pcb when flipping component to back side of board

Is that still broken?

> * No good way to implement single-point grounding in pcb (or to specify it
> in gschem).
>   The recommended work-around was to use a capital letter I on a copper
> layer to bridge AGND and DGND, which only works because the pcb DRC ignores
> text...

Yea that is pretty bad.

> * Can’t omit the solder mask layer in pcb

You don't want solder mask for a whole board? or is this the issue of
selective mask removal?

> * pcb insists on using elements from the default library (without manually
> deleting the default library).  e.g. (here and here)

ok.

> Overall though, I like the unixy aspects of gschem/pcb enough to stick with
> it and puzzle things out.  So please know that I am very appreciative of the
> existence of both programs and of the community that supports them.

Thanks.

> James

Evan

-- 
Home
http://evanfoss.googlepages.com/
Work
http://forge.abcd.harvard.edu/gf/project/epl_engineering/wiki/

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