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| Tue, 26 Jul 2016 14:22:23 -0700 (PDT) | |
| From: | "James Battat (jbattat AT wellesley DOT edu) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com]" <geda-user AT delorie DOT com> |
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| Subject: | Re: Why we just lost some users? -> Re: [geda-user] Stay or go? |
| Date: | Tue, 26 Jul 2016 17:22:20 -0400 |
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--Apple-Mail=_E9749828-2C15-47E3-A73C-3B9D225D571B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 > I am moving this to it's own thread just because I want it to get some > added attention. I am hoping Marvin can respond with out being > harassed by people looking to debate what he needs/wants because I > want to honestly know (as I think others do/should) what people are > looking for in gEDA that we currently don't have. I can add one point of view here. When I was a brand-new user (started = using gEDA in 2014 =97 I still consider myself a =93quite new" user), I = found the following frustrating when trying out gEDA: * Difficulty to install on my machine (Mac) (e.g. here and here) Eventually, but reluctantly, I gave up and settled on running = gschem/pcb in a linux virtual machine. =20 Once I chose to switch though, the linux install was painless. * Lack of coherent documentation for new users like myself to get off = the ground For example, I had been following the recommendation to use gsch2pcb = (which is the first listed tutorial for how to start using gEDA) for = more than a year before I stumbled upon the =93Import Schematic=94 = feature in pcb. And, IIRC, the documentation for that is scattered = throughout mailing list posts. * Lack of searchable archive of the mailing list(?) Maybe there is one, = but I haven=92t found it. =20 As a result, I often stumble across useful mailing list content by = accident when doing somewhat related google searches (e.g. the Import = Schematic example above). * No straightforward way to share a design (with relevant = symbols/footprints) to collaborators. see e.g. recent discussion on that topic. I work at a college, and the issues above pose a barrier to = collaborating with students who are new to EDA. i.e. it makes it hard = to =93bring new users into the fold.=94 In contrast, there is ample = Eagle/KiCad documentation, and the students prefer to start there. Since 2014, I've posted many questions to geda-help and geda-user, and = the responses are often helpful and quick, and I really appreciate that. = =20 But sometimes it=92s clear that there just isn=92t a straightforward = solution to the issue, and often no sense that a solution is coming = soon. Some examples: * Bug in pcb when flipping component to back side of board * No good way to implement single-point grounding in pcb (or to specify = it in gschem). The recommended work-around was to use a capital letter I on a copper = layer to bridge AGND and DGND, which only works because the pcb DRC = ignores text... * Can=92t omit the solder mask layer in pcb * pcb insists on using elements from the default library (without = manually deleting the default library). e.g. (here and here) Overall though, I like the unixy aspects of gschem/pcb enough to stick = with it and puzzle things out. So please know that I am very = appreciative of the existence of both programs and of the community that = supports them. James= --Apple-Mail=_E9749828-2C15-47E3-A73C-3B9D225D571B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 <html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html = charset=3Dwindows-1252"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; = -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: = after-white-space;"><br><div><blockquote type=3D"cite">I am moving this = to it's own thread just because I want it to get some<br>added = attention. I am hoping Marvin can respond with out being<br>harassed by = people looking to debate what he needs/wants because I<br>want to = honestly know (as I think others do/should) what people are<br>looking = for in gEDA that we currently don't = have.<br></blockquote><br></div><div>I can add one point of view here. = When I was a brand-new user (started using gEDA in 2014 =97 I = still consider myself a =93quite new" user), I found the following = frustrating when trying out gEDA:</div><div><br></div><div>* Difficulty = to install on my machine (Mac) (e.g. <a = href=3D"http://www.delorie.com/archives/browse.cgi?p=3Dgeda-user/2016/02/2= 9/22:00:39">here</a> and <a = href=3D"http://www.delorie.com/archives/thread.cgi?msg=3Dgeda-help/2016/02= /29/20:24:53&mode=3Dframes">here</a>)</div><div> Eventually, = but reluctantly, I gave up and settled on running gschem/pcb in a linux = virtual machine. </div><div> Once I chose to switch though, = the linux install was painless.</div><div><br></div><div>* Lack of = coherent documentation for new users like myself to get off the = ground</div><div> For example, I had been following the <a = href=3D"http://wiki.geda-project.org/geda:gsch2pcb_tutorial">recommendatio= n to use gsch2pcb</a> (which is the <a = href=3D"http://wiki.geda-project.org/geda:faq#okay_how_do_i_start_using_ge= da">first listed tutorial</a> for how to start using gEDA) for more = than a year before I stumbled upon the =93Import Schematic=94 feature in = pcb. And, IIRC, the documentation for that is <a = href=3D"http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.cad.geda.user/41098">scattere= d throughout mailing list posts</a>.</div><div><br></div><div>* Lack of = searchable archive of the mailing list(?) Maybe there is one, but = I haven=92t found it. </div><div> As a result, I often = stumble across useful mailing list content by accident when doing = somewhat related google searches (e.g. the Import Schematic example = above).</div><div><br></div><div>* No straightforward way to share a = design (with relevant symbols/footprints) to = collaborators.</div><div> see e.g. <a = href=3D"http://www.delorie.com/archives/browse.cgi?p=3Dgeda-user/2016/07/0= 6/07:16:06">recent discussion</a> on that = topic.</div><div><br></div><div>I work at a college, and the issues = above pose a barrier to collaborating with students who are new to EDA. = i.e. it makes it hard to =93bring new users into the fold.=94 = In contrast, there is ample Eagle/KiCad documentation, and the = students prefer to start there.</div><div><br></div><div>Since 2014, = I've posted many questions to geda-help and geda-user, and the responses = are often helpful and quick, and I really appreciate that. = </div><div>But sometimes it=92s clear that there just isn=92t a = straightforward solution to the issue, and often no sense that a = solution is coming soon.</div><div><br></div><div>Some = examples:</div><div><br></div><div>* Bug in pcb <a = href=3D"http://www.delorie.com/archives/thread.cgi?msg=3Dgeda-help/2016/03= /14/20:15:51&mode=3Dframes">when flipping component to back side of = board</a></div><div><br></div><div>* No good way to implement = single-point grounding in pcb (or to specify it in = gschem).</div><div> The <a = href=3D"http://www.delorie.com/archives/thread.cgi?msg=3Dgeda-help/2016/03= /11/17:17:18&mode=3Dframes">recommended work-around</a> was to = use a capital letter I on a copper layer to bridge AGND and DGND, which = only works because the pcb DRC ignores = text...</div><div><br></div><div>* Can=92t <a = href=3D"http://www.delorie.com/archives/thread.cgi?msg=3Dgeda-help/2016/03= /18/13:01:39&mode=3Dframes">omit the solder mask layer</a> in = pcb</div><div><br></div><div>* pcb insists on using elements from the = default library (without manually deleting the default library). = e.g. (<a = href=3D"http://www.delorie.com/archives/thread.cgi?msg=3Dgeda-help/2016/03= /11/16:11:34&mode=3Dframes">here</a> and <a = href=3D"http://archives.seul.org/geda/user/Aug-2010/msg00347.html">here</a= >)</div><div><br></div><div>Overall though, I like the unixy aspects of = gschem/pcb enough to stick with it and puzzle things out. So = please know that I am very appreciative of the existence of both = programs and of the community that supports = them.</div><div><br></div><div>James</div></body></html>= --Apple-Mail=_E9749828-2C15-47E3-A73C-3B9D225D571B--
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