Mail Archives: geda-user/2016/07/26/16:35:36
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| From: | "Marvin Dickens (mpdickens AT gmail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com]" <geda-user AT delorie DOT com>
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| Date: | Tue, 26 Jul 2016 16:34:13 -0400
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| Message-ID: | <CANEvwqiQXaZQVh12w9q5Av9d5KWfJpmYmbnkNZU1WHFMziEs5w@mail.gmail.com>
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| Subject: | Re: Why we just lost some users? -> Re: [geda-user] Stay or go?
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--001a1149dab2f044b705388fd266
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Hi Evan and everyone on the list,
Thank you for asking what we are thinking. I have asked everybody in our
workflow the question(s) you have posed. I have started this conversation
in our organization using a cc of your email. As soon we all discuss/trade
our
thoughts, I will post what we are interested in to this list. This post
will be later
in the week because we are slammed.
FWIW, we do not like giving our hard earned money away for tools that are
closed and therefore, permanently over priced.
Best
Marvin
On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 2:36 PM, Evan Foss (evanfoss AT gmail DOT com) [via
geda-user AT delorie DOT com] <geda-user AT delorie DOT com> wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 6:25 PM, Marvin Dickens (mpdickens AT gmail DOT com)
> [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com] <geda-user AT delorie DOT com> wrote:
> > Please note this email is not a troll as I have been on this list way
> over a
> > decade. With that said, here it comes:
>
> I am moving this to it's own thread just because I want it to get some
> added attention. I am hoping Marvin can respond with out being
> harassed by people looking to debate what he needs/wants because I
> want to honestly know (as I think others do/should) what people are
> looking for in gEDA that we currently don't have.
>
> A lot of us view gEDA as being perfect enough to use. I would like to
> hear an openly descenting opinion.
>
> > We asked ourselves the exact same question a little over 12 months ago
> and
> > concluded we needed to purchase licenses to a well
> > known commercial EDA suite. With that said, Free software is the futur=
e.
> > OTOH, gEDA developers have to figure out how to move forward
> > embrace current and future user needs (The usual stuff like: usability,
> > modern work flow, modern gui and etc...) Candidly, at our organization,
> > we do not see this happening. What we see are personality clashes betwe=
en
>
> Ignoring the issues with developers and their problems with change
> would you please explain what it is you were hoping for in usability,
> workflow and gui that you were not seeing?
>
> > developers and an unwillingness to embrace change, new technology
> > or new paradigms in computer science of any type or kind - Even though =
in
> > computer science and engineering change is a certainty. OTOH, we
> > have no room to complain because gEDA developers create code gratis and=
a
> > reasonable argument can be made that if I or anyone else is unhappy wit=
h
> the
> > state of things we can write the additions and/or changes ourselves. Th=
is
> > dynamic makes it impossible to include the tool set in our
> > business plan - Its too risky.
> >
> > So, After great debate, we jumped ship. But, did not do it in haste. W=
e
> > continue to read the list and keep a couple of workstations with gEDA
> loaded
> > in the event we need to revisit a design. I suppose what I am saying is
> this
> > suite is now a legacy in our workflow - This does not make me happy,
> > but it's the way it is. In fact, I'd go as far as to say its a shame.
>
> That is too bad.
>
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Marvin
>
> Thanks,
> Evan
>
> > On Sat, Jul 23, 2016 at 10:16 AM, James Battat (jbattat AT wellesley DOT edu)
> [via
> > geda-user AT delorie DOT com] <geda-user AT delorie DOT com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Dear gEDA folks,
> >>
> >> I=E2=80=99ve used gschem/pcb for several (modest) boards now, and love=
many
> things
> >> about it.
> >> I do not love what I perceive to be deep friction and lack of
> cooperation
> >> among developers.
> >>
> >> It makes me wonder how long gschem/pcb will endure. And therefore I
> must
> >> decide if, as a user, I should invest any more effort to learning the
> >> platform and building up custom footprint/schematic libraries, etc, or
> >> instead transition now to another platform.
> >>
> >> This may be an unfair question to ask on this forum, but here goes:
> >>
> >> What do you see as drawbacks to KiCad (wrt gschem/pcb)? I=E2=80=99m o=
n the
> fence
> >> about transitioning away from gschem/pcb. Why should I stay?
> >>
> >> James
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Home
> http://evanfoss.googlepages.com/
> Work
> http://forge.abcd.harvard.edu/gf/project/epl_engineering/wiki/
>
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Evan and everyone on the list,<div><br></div><div>Thank=
you for asking what we are thinking. I have asked =C2=A0everybody in our</=
div><div>workflow the question(s) you have posed. I have started this conve=
rsation</div><div>in our organization using a cc of your email. As soon we =
all discuss/trade our</div><div>thoughts, I will post what we are intereste=
d in to this list. This post will be later</div><div>in the week because we=
are slammed.</div><div><br></div><div>FWIW, we do not like giving our hard=
earned money away for tools that are=C2=A0</div><div>closed and therefore,=
permanently over priced.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Best=C2=A0</div><d=
iv><br></div><div><br></div><div>Marvin</div><div>=C2=A0</div></div><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at =
2:36 PM, Evan Foss (<a href=3D"mailto:evanfoss AT gmail DOT com">evanfoss AT gmail DOT co=
m</a>) [via <a href=3D"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com">geda-user AT delorie DOT com<=
/a>] <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com" target=
=3D"_blank">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;pad=
ding-left:1ex">On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 6:25 PM, Marvin Dickens (<a href=3D"=
mailto:mpdickens AT gmail DOT com">mpdickens AT gmail DOT com</a>)<br>
[via <a href=3D"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>] &l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>> wr=
ote:<br>
> Please note this email is not a troll as I have been on this list way =
over a<br>
> decade. With that said, here it comes:<br>
<br>
I am moving this to it's own thread just because I want it to get some<=
br>
added attention. I am hoping Marvin can respond with out being<br>
harassed by people looking to debate what he needs/wants because I<br>
want to honestly know (as I think others do/should) what people are<br>
looking for in gEDA that we currently don't have.<br>
<br>
A lot of us view gEDA as being perfect enough to use. I would like to<br>
hear an openly descenting opinion.<br>
<br>
> We asked ourselves the exact same question a little over 12 months ago=
and<br>
> concluded we needed to purchase licenses to a well<br>
> known commercial EDA suite. With that said,=C2=A0 Free software is the=
future.<br>
> OTOH, gEDA developers have to figure out how to move forward<br>
> embrace current and future user needs (The usual stuff like: usability=
,<br>
> modern work flow, modern gui and etc...) Candidly, at our organization=
,<br>
> we do not see this happening. What we see are personality clashes betw=
een<br>
<br>
Ignoring the issues with developers and their problems with change<br>
would you please explain what it is you were hoping for in usability,<br>
workflow and gui that you were not seeing?<br>
<br>
> developers and an unwillingness to embrace change, new technology<br>
> or new paradigms in computer science of any type or kind - Even though=
in<br>
> computer science and engineering change is a certainty. OTOH, we<br>
> have no room to complain because gEDA developers create code gratis an=
d a<br>
> reasonable argument can be made that if I or anyone else is unhappy wi=
th the<br>
> state of things we can write the additions and/or changes ourselves. T=
his<br>
> dynamic makes it impossible to include the tool set in our<br>
> business plan - Its too risky.<br>
><br>
> So, After great debate, we jumped ship.=C2=A0 But, did not do it in ha=
ste. We<br>
> continue to read the list and keep a couple of workstations with gEDA =
loaded<br>
> in the event we need to revisit a design. I suppose what I am saying i=
s this<br>
> suite is now a legacy in our workflow - This does not make me happy,<b=
r>
> but it's the way it is. In fact, I'd go as far as to say its a=
shame.<br>
<br>
That is too bad.<br>
<br>
><br>
> Regards<br>
><br>
> Marvin<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Evan<br>
<br>
> On Sat, Jul 23, 2016 at 10:16 AM, James Battat (<a href=3D"mailto:jbat=
tat AT wellesley DOT edu">jbattat AT wellesley DOT edu</a>) [via<br>
> <a href=3D"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>] &l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>> wr=
ote:<br>
>><br>
>> Dear gEDA folks,<br>
>><br>
>> I=E2=80=99ve used gschem/pcb for several (modest) boards now, and =
love many things<br>
>> about it.<br>
>> I do not love what I perceive to be deep friction and lack of coop=
eration<br>
>> among developers.<br>
>><br>
>> It makes me wonder how long gschem/pcb will endure.=C2=A0 And ther=
efore I must<br>
>> decide if, as a user, I should invest any more effort to learning =
the<br>
>> platform and building up custom footprint/schematic libraries, etc=
, or<br>
>> instead transition now to another platform.<br>
>><br>
>> This may be an unfair question to ask on this forum, but here goes=
:<br>
>><br>
>> What do you see as drawbacks to KiCad (wrt gschem/pcb)?=C2=A0 I=E2=
=80=99m on the fence<br>
>> about transitioning away from gschem/pcb.=C2=A0 Why should I stay?=
<br>
>><br>
>> James<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
Home<br>
<a href=3D"http://evanfoss.googlepages.com/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_=
blank">http://evanfoss.googlepages.com/</a><br>
Work<br>
<a href=3D"http://forge.abcd.harvard.edu/gf/project/epl_engineering/wiki/" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://forge.abcd.harvard.edu/gf/proje=
ct/epl_engineering/wiki/</a><br>
<br>
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