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	Wed, 06 Jul 2016 08:33:28 -0700 (PDT)
Date:	Wed, 6 Jul 2016 17:33:23 +0200
From:	"Nicklas Karlsson (nicklas DOT karlsson17 AT gmail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com]" <geda-user AT delorie DOT com>
To:	geda-user AT delorie DOT com
Subject:	Re: [geda-user] RFC: project files (pcb-rnd) and multiple pcbs
	(tabs)
Message-Id:	<20160706173323.cad7efb51205418b43a5f097@gmail.com>
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Make is a powerful tool to keep track of which files need to be updated. Maybe a Makefile could do the trick.

On Wed, 6 Jul 2016 09:02:15 +0200 (CEST)
gedau AT igor2 DOT repo DOT hu wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> there's a flamewar-triggering topic: project files. I am trying to make 
> non-intrusive, optional project files for pcb-rnd. I'm interested in geda 
> user's feedback on my plans. As always, I am determined to carry this out, 
> so it's not just yet-another-bike-shedding-thread: whether the thread 
> yields useful comments or not, code will be written, and project file 
> support will exist (... as it already did for ages, see later). So please 
> try to be constructive to make the result better!
> 
> As usual: nothing proposed for mainline pcb, geda, gaf, gschem. I am 
> interested in pcb.geda/gaf/gschem user opinions to integrate them in the 
> pcb-rnd, gsch2pcb-rnd and cschem toolset.
> 
> ***
> 
> First, how project files can be done without turning them into an Evil 
> Tool Of Integration:
> 
> A project file is a collection of settings and file names (paths) and 
> metadata. It tries to fully or partially describe a project. It binds 
> things in one direction: describes what the project consists of, but does 
> not tie a given source (pcb, sch, etc) to a single project. In other 
> words, it is for remembering how a project can be put together, but it 
> does not affect the independency of each source file. Source files can be 
> referenced from multiple projects. There can be source files never 
> referenced from any project.
> 
> A project file is totally optional: if an user feels the need to have a 
> project file, he can have one; other users can use the same source files 
> manually, totally ignoring any existing project file and complex projects 
> can exist without project files.
> 
> A project file can be partial: it's a collection of optional extra 
> settings/info. When a project file is passed to a tool, any setting that 
> is not specified to the tool (e.g. on command line) can be loaded from the 
> project file. E.g. it's normal to use a project file to only specify 
> library paths and leave input/output file names to a Makefile.
> 
> Multiple tools can understand the same project file, but not all tools 
> must understand it. Pro: the same settings (e.g. library search path for 
> pcb and gsch2pcb) don't need to be specified/maintained in different 
> files in parallel. Con: it's obviously impossible to get all existing 
> tools to learn a single configuration language. It's not the goal 
> either, see extraction/conversion later.
> 
> Tools dealing with the project file are required to be able to pick out
> the parts they are interested in and leave unknown parts intact even in a
> load-save cycle. This obviously needs some generic container format. (For 
> pcb-rnd my choice is lihata.)
> 
> For tools that don't implement support for the project file: smallish 
> utilities can be provided that extract parts of the project file and 
> generate tool-specific rc, config or porject files.
> 
> ***
> 
> History
> 
> The concept is not new. gsch2pcb had optional project files for ages, but 
> they were not generic enough, e.g. library search paths had to be 
> specified there and then explained to pcb too. The non-intrusive property 
> has been there for ages too: gsch2pcb can work with and without project 
> files.
> 
> ***
> 
> Motivation
> 
> I often have small projects with multiple sch and pcb files and custom 
> footprint and/or symbol settings. I don't really like that I need to keep 
> multiple config files in sync to get tools work together on the project. 
> If the same tools understand eachother's file formats, they should 
> also understand some common config. If the way of undestanding file 
> formats is through external or semi-external tools (e.g. gnetlist, 
> gsch2pcb), perhaps the same way should be applied to the project file. As 
> a programer I care about such implementation detail, but as an user I 
> don't.
> 
> I don't believe "different tools understanding a common standard" means 
> "integration" or is evil by default.
> 
> ***
> 
> Next, what should go in a project file, and this is where I am 
> especially interested in feedback. Please remember that any of these are 
> optional and may be partial. A valid project file can even omit all of 
> these and be empty (with some minimal header).
> 
> 1. settings of tools; pcb-rnd already can read a config tree (as role 
> CFR_PROJECT) from a project file. In practice this means any pcb-rnd 
> configuration can be changed (weakly or strongly) from a project file. A 
> common example is prepending or appending library search paths.
> 
> 2. lists of files the project consists of; probably list per type, e.g. a 
> list of schematics pages, a list of pcb files. Editors speaking 
> the common project file language _optionally_ can load a project file, 
> which at least means they can open all input files from one of the lists. 
> As an optional extra editors can also load config subtrees from the 
> project file (in practice: gsch2pcb-rnd and pcb-rnd load the same config 
> tree from the project file so footprint library search path can be 
> common).
> 
> 3. metadata: project description, copyright, URLs to the VCS, comments, 
> etc.
> 
> 
> ***
> 
> PCB-related question: gschem can deal with multiple pages open, pcb and 
> pcb-rnd can have only one file open. Is it worth adding "tabs" to pcb-rnd 
> and let it open multiple files?
> 
> Or is this a viable alternative: a "switch file" menu; when a project is 
> loaded, the first pcb file is presented. The "switch file" menu is almost 
> the same as the normal load dialog, but it offers only the pcb files 
> referenced from the project file. Switching is still the same operation as 
> load pcb, so only one pcb open at a time and you have to save before 
> switch. This fake multi-pcb setup works only with project files, when a 
> .pcb is loaded explicitly, the project is unloaded, "switdch file" is 
> disabled.
> 
> 
> TIA,
> 
> Igor2
> 

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