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In-Reply-To:	<201601182153.15624.gheskett@shentel.net>
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Date:	Tue, 19 Jan 2016 09:53:01 -0900
Message-ID:	<CAC4O8c_fDrxeAKezz7VT8cO6bYNfHME8OadYTY3Ge4cajLRwDQ@mail.gmail.com>
Subject:	Re: [geda-user] pcb vs gcode export
From:	"Britton Kerin (britton DOT kerin AT gmail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com]" <geda-user AT delorie DOT com>
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On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 5:53 PM, Gene Heskett (gheskett AT shentel DOT net) [via
geda-user AT delorie DOT com] <geda-user AT delorie DOT com> wrote:

> Greetings;
>
> Since I have a milling machine capable of doing PCB's, albeit slow as
> molasses since the spindle's tongue is hanging out and dripping on the
> floor at 2650 rpm's.  But it works.
>
> Which is ATM more than I can say for the gcode exporter.
>
> It leaves out thru holes, or makes them the wrong size, as in too big,
> destroying the pad itself.  This missing holes also affects the bottom
> etching file, skipping the peck with the engraving tool in the center of
> the pad, and despite being told to peck that about 5 thou deeper, it
> doesn't even make it thru the copper.
>
> But I am fairly decent, not a guru, but capable of fixing a line of code
> here and there, so I was able to add the peck the hold in the pad
> without a lot of hacking around. So that did cut what was a usable
> bottom(solder) side of the board.  Then, attacking the drillmill file, I
> found the bit of code that needed help by mouse clicking on the line in
> the LCNC backplot to locate it in the code, first adding the missing
> holes with a straight drill of 0.03125 diameter.  But some holes were
> still either too big or tool small. Using the point and click, I found
> it in the code, and except for the original placement move, I ripped out
> the octagonal carving code and did a straight drill.  Checking the
> sizes, I added a global var to the gcode file which served as the
> additional radius the hole needed to be the right size. Setting it for 3
> to 6 thousandths, and calling a circle cutter subroutine, I was able to
> fine tune the hole sizes.
>
> So then I coded up a step & repeat, and made the circuit 4 up. I
> populated the first one last night but ran out of giddyup, so it got
> tested today, works great.
>
> So today, I had pcb make some Gerber's that I could look at with gerbv.
> No missing holes, but since it was working with the .pcb file, the holes
> were still mostly too small.
>
> So, my  wish list is:
>
> 1. Make a library pad patterns adjustable in the editor, both for
> interlead spacing, and the pad OD and hole size, using a unit of measure
> we are familiar with.  Maybe it can be done to the copy in memory, but
> its not obvious from the current screen the device editor menu shows a
> new bee.
>
> 2. Fix the gcode export menu so it saves the last set of "makeit"
> settings even if I don't load pcb again for a month, and reloads them
> when next called.  Continuity would be very handy, almost on a par with
> sliced bread and bottled beer.
>

I think the way this would work is the normal settings would go in
~/.pcb/preferences, and then individual boards could override them with
their own settings.  I'm looking at how all this works a little bit at the
moment with an eye to cleaning up load/save somewhat.


> 3. Fix the missing drill holes in the gcode exporter.  Not everyone is as
> familiar with LinuxCNC and gcode as I am, and I am by no means a guru.
> For probably 75% of the people who might use that code to directly
> generate the gcode files, and who often depend on a CAM program to
> generate the code they run, this is for those people, an absolute show
> stopper.
>

Sounds like a great thing to fix for sure.  Unfortunately I know nothing
about the gcode or gerber exporters myself.  I would guess that the gcode
one doesn't get a lot of exercise hence bugs like these.


> 4. I have no facilities to lay down a solder mask, and being able to do
> that would be a huge help, but I haven't the foggiest where to start.
> Hints about that gleefully read and noted to see if its practical when I
>

I used to use a mask pen and only bothered with the fine pitch parts.  It's
fussy but you can do it for etch/mill boards using the edges of the copper
to guide the pen.  I'm not sure how necessary it was though.


> haven't had a working chemical darkroom set up since about 1977 when I
> moved to a new office where the door said Chief Engineer, at a tv
> station that is no more. That was also the title on the door for the
> last 18 years of my working carrear which ended 13.5 years ago. I am now
> 81 and counting.
>

Welcome!


> Any help that can be put into PCB in these areas will be appreciated, a
> lot.
>

It sounds to me like you've already made some real fixes.  You might want
to get set up with git as that's probably the easiest way to get them
approved and integrated.  Another option is to open pcb launchpad bugs with
your patches and email the list about them, and someone else can look at
them and create a corresponding branch.

Britton

--001a114545d6021e6c0529b461ce
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te">On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 5:53 PM, Gene Heskett (<a href=3D"mailto:gheske=
tt AT shentel DOT net">gheskett AT shentel DOT net</a>) [via <a href=3D"mailto:geda-user@=
delorie.com">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>] <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com" target=3D"_blank">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>&gt;=
</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px=
 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-=
left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">Greetings;<br>
<br>
Since I have a milling machine capable of doing PCB&#39;s, albeit slow as<b=
r>
molasses since the spindle&#39;s tongue is hanging out and dripping on the<=
br>
floor at 2650 rpm&#39;s.=C2=A0 But it works.<br>
<br>
Which is ATM more than I can say for the gcode exporter.<br>
<br>
It leaves out thru holes, or makes them the wrong size, as in too big,<br>
destroying the pad itself.=C2=A0 This missing holes also affects the bottom=
<br>
etching file, skipping the peck with the engraving tool in the center of<br=
>
the pad, and despite being told to peck that about 5 thou deeper, it<br>
doesn&#39;t even make it thru the copper.<br>
<br>
But I am fairly decent, not a guru, but capable of fixing a line of code<br=
>
here and there, so I was able to add the peck the hold in the pad<br>
without a lot of hacking around. So that did cut what was a usable<br>
bottom(solder) side of the board.=C2=A0 Then, attacking the drillmill file,=
 I<br>
found the bit of code that needed help by mouse clicking on the line in<br>
the LCNC backplot to locate it in the code, first adding the missing<br>
holes with a straight drill of 0.03125 diameter.=C2=A0 But some holes were<=
br>
still either too big or tool small. Using the point and click, I found<br>
it in the code, and except for the original placement move, I ripped out<br=
>
the octagonal carving code and did a straight drill.=C2=A0 Checking the<br>
sizes, I added a global var to the gcode file which served as the<br>
additional radius the hole needed to be the right size. Setting it for 3<br=
>
to 6 thousandths, and calling a circle cutter subroutine, I was able to<br>
fine tune the hole sizes.<br>
<br>
So then I coded up a step &amp; repeat, and made the circuit 4 up. I<br>
populated the first one last night but ran out of giddyup, so it got<br>
tested today, works great.<br>
<br>
So today, I had pcb make some Gerber&#39;s that I could look at with gerbv.=
<br>
No missing holes, but since it was working with the .pcb file, the holes<br=
>
were still mostly too small.<br>
<br>
So, my=C2=A0 wish list is:<br>
<br>
1. Make a library pad patterns adjustable in the editor, both for<br>
interlead spacing, and the pad OD and hole size, using a unit of measure<br=
>
we are familiar with.=C2=A0 Maybe it can be done to the copy in memory, but=
<br>
its not obvious from the current screen the device editor menu shows a<br>
new bee.<br>
<br>
2. Fix the gcode export menu so it saves the last set of &quot;makeit&quot;=
<br>
settings even if I don&#39;t load pcb again for a month, and reloads them<b=
r>
when next called.=C2=A0 Continuity would be very handy, almost on a par wit=
h<br>
sliced bread and bottled beer.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div style=3D=
"">I think the way this would work is the normal settings would go in ~/.pc=
b/preferences, and then individual boards could override them with their ow=
n settings.=C2=A0 I&#39;m looking at how all this works a little bit at the=
 moment with an eye to cleaning up load/save somewhat.</div><div>=C2=A0</di=
v><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;borde=
r-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid=
;padding-left:1ex">
3. Fix the missing drill holes in the gcode exporter.=C2=A0 Not everyone is=
 as<br>
familiar with LinuxCNC and gcode as I am, and I am by no means a guru.<br>
For probably 75% of the people who might use that code to directly<br>
generate the gcode files, and who often depend on a CAM program to<br>
generate the code they run, this is for those people, an absolute show<br>
stopper.<br></blockquote><div>=C2=A0</div><div><div>Sounds like a great thi=
ng to fix for sure.=C2=A0 Unfortunately I know nothing about the gcode or g=
erber exporters myself.=C2=A0 I would guess that the gcode one doesn&#39;t =
get a lot of exercise hence bugs like these.</div></div><div>=C2=A0<br></di=
v><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;borde=
r-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid=
;padding-left:1ex">
4. I have no facilities to lay down a solder mask, and being able to do<br>
that would be a huge help, but I haven&#39;t the foggiest where to start.<b=
r>
Hints about that gleefully read and noted to see if its practical when I<br=
></blockquote><div><br></div><div style=3D"">I used to use a mask pen and o=
nly bothered with the fine pitch parts.=C2=A0 It&#39;s fussy but you can do=
 it for etch/mill boards using the edges of the copper to guide the pen.=C2=
=A0 I&#39;m not sure how necessary it was though.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><bl=
ockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-lef=
t-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padd=
ing-left:1ex">
haven&#39;t had a working chemical darkroom set up since about 1977 when I<=
br>
moved to a new office where the door said Chief Engineer, at a tv<br>
station that is no more. That was also the title on the door for the<br>
last 18 years of my working carrear which ended 13.5 years ago. I am now<br=
>
81 and counting.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div style=3D"">Welcome!</d=
iv><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0=
px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);borde=
r-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
Any help that can be put into PCB in these areas will be appreciated, a<br>
lot.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div style=3D"">It sounds to me like yo=
u&#39;ve already made some real fixes.=C2=A0 You might want to get set up w=
ith git as that&#39;s probably the easiest way to get them approved and int=
egrated.=C2=A0 Another option is to open pcb launchpad bugs with your patch=
es and email the list about them, and someone else can look at them and cre=
ate a corresponding branch.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><div style=3D"">Britton</=
div><div><br></div></div></div></div>

--001a114545d6021e6c0529b461ce--

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