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Mail Archives: geda-user/2016/01/13/16:57:54

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Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 21:56:04 +0000
From: "M. J. Everitt (m DOT j DOT everitt AT iee DOT org) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com]" <geda-user AT delorie DOT com>
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To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com
Subject: Re: [geda-user] Re: off-board parts/wiring
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Reply-To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com

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On 13/01/2016 7:06 pm, Britton Kerin (britton DOT kerin AT gmail DOT com) [via 
geda-user AT delorie DOT com] wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 5:24 AM, M. J. Everitt (m DOT j DOT everitt AT iee DOT org 
> <mailto:m DOT j DOT everitt AT iee DOT org>) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com 
> <mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com>] <geda-user AT delorie DOT com 
> <mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com>> wrote:
>
>     On 12/01/16 17:19, Peter Clifton (petercjclifton AT googlemail DOT com
>     <mailto:petercjclifton AT googlemail DOT com>) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com
>     <mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com>] wrote:
>>
>>
>>     On 12 Jan 2016 17:02, "Frank Miles (fpm AT u DOT washington DOT edu
>>     <mailto:fpm AT u DOT washington DOT edu>) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com
>>     <mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com>]" <geda-user AT delorie DOT com
>>     <mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com>> wrote:
>>     >
>>
>>     > Perhaps I'm confused.  I thought I had read that the netlist
>>     import was
>>     > deprecated, and that the proper way of importing the netlist
>>     was through
>>     > PCB:File/Import Schematics.  If netlist import is still equally
>>     valid,
>>     > then please accept my apology for the needless noise.
>>     >
>>     >         -F
>>
>>     The import mechanism was added as a more integrated way of
>>     retrieving this information, rather than relying on an external
>>     tool,  gsch2pcb to process your existing design file and make
>>     edits. (This tool had to read and make edits to the board files,
>>     so represented a barrier to format changes. This was probably not
>>     the initial motivation of the new mechanism, but represents a big
>>     plus point to its existence).
>>
>>     Underlying the mechanism is a netlist backend for gnetlist which
>>     describes the components and nets of the design using a series of
>>     pcb action commands. These are executed by pcb on the open
>>     design, and in turn update the internal view of the netlist.
>>
>>     The "old" netlist format is not deprecated, although it does not
>>     convey all of the information about parts etc.. (gsch2pcb managed
>>     that aspect based upon a template file a separate gnetlist
>>     backend would populate with all the parts of a given design).
>>
>>     Since gsch2pcb and associated netlist backends were in a separate
>>     code base to pcb, this represented a compatibility problem if
>>     ever we changed things with the file format. The new backend
>>     lives with PCB (iirc), so merely relies on gnetlist keeping a
>>     stable scheme api and command line interface.
>>
>>     You might be interested to know that the update mechanism can be
>>     wired to call a makefile (or other scripts?) to generate the
>>     required data, so it is infact quite general. Only the
>>     "schematics" attributes are really assumed to come from a simple
>>     gschem work flow.
>>
>>     At some point, I may update xgsch2pcb to use this new mechanism,
>>     rather than gsch2pcb. It seems redundant to update gsch2pcb
>>     itself though.
>>
>>     Peter
>>
>     I confess to never using the Import Schematics, probably because
>     its only just appeared in the builds I have ready access to. I
>     have never had any problems with the gsch2pcb workflow, like much
>     of geda-gaf, it's quirky, but it works, and and you soon figure
>     out how to make it do what is necessary.
>
>
> It took me a long time to get around to trying it as well, for about 
> the same reason.  It's worth it though, especially if you find 
> yourself making a lot of small changes on the gschem side and routing 
> them incrementally.
>
> Britton
>
I'm assuming we're still waiting for Peter's code to back-annotate 
changes from the pcb layout editor to the schematic editor?! Otherwise, 
netlist changes aren't usually too painful. It's a greater pain updating 
component values, doing a new BOM export, and merging the changes to my 
spreadsheet !! :P

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    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 13/01/2016 7:06 pm, Britton Kerin
      (<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:britton DOT kerin AT gmail DOT com">britton DOT kerin AT gmail DOT com</a>) [via <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>] wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAC4O8c-=H2vxMbbVrty3BfATcY5y625TH6BDQu0FqZGWQ=3uEQ AT mail DOT gmail DOT com"
      type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr"><br>
        <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
          <div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 5:24 AM, M.
            J. Everitt (<a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:m DOT j DOT everitt AT iee DOT org">m DOT j DOT everitt AT iee DOT org</a>)
            [via <a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>]
            <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com" target="_blank">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>&gt;</span>
            wrote:<br>
            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
              .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
              <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> On 12/01/16 17:19,
                Peter Clifton (<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="mailto:petercjclifton AT googlemail DOT com"
                  target="_blank">petercjclifton AT googlemail DOT com</a>)
                [via <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com" target="_blank">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>]
                wrote:<br>
                <blockquote type="cite">
                  <p dir="ltr"><br>
                    On 12 Jan 2016 17:02, "Frank Miles (<a
                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="mailto:fpm AT u DOT washington DOT edu" target="_blank">fpm AT u DOT washington DOT edu</a>)
                    [via <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com"
                      target="_blank">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>]" &lt;<a
                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com"
                      target="_blank">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>&gt;
                    wrote:<br>
                    &gt;</p>
                  <p dir="ltr">&gt; Perhaps I'm confused.  I thought I
                    had read that the netlist import was<br>
                    &gt; deprecated, and that the proper way of
                    importing the netlist was through<br>
                    &gt; PCB:File/Import Schematics.  If netlist import
                    is still equally valid,<br>
                    &gt; then please accept my apology for the needless
                    noise.<br>
                    &gt;<br>
                    &gt;         -F</p>
                  <p dir="ltr">The import mechanism was added as a more
                    integrated way of retrieving this information,
                    rather than relying on an external tool,  gsch2pcb
                    to process your existing design file and make edits.
                    (This tool had to read and make edits to the board
                    files, so represented a barrier to format changes.
                    This was probably not the initial motivation of the
                    new mechanism, but represents a big plus point to
                    its existence).</p>
                  <p dir="ltr">Underlying the mechanism is a netlist
                    backend for gnetlist which describes the components
                    and nets of the design using a series of pcb action
                    commands. These are executed by pcb on the open
                    design, and in turn update the internal view of the
                    netlist.</p>
                  <p dir="ltr">The "old" netlist format is not
                    deprecated, although it does not convey all of the
                    information about parts etc.. (gsch2pcb managed that
                    aspect based upon a template file a separate
                    gnetlist backend would populate with all the parts
                    of a given design).</p>
                  <p dir="ltr">Since gsch2pcb and associated netlist
                    backends were in a separate code base to pcb, this
                    represented a compatibility problem if ever we
                    changed things with the file format. The new backend
                    lives with PCB (iirc), so merely relies on gnetlist
                    keeping a stable scheme api and command line
                    interface.<br>
                  </p>
                  <p dir="ltr">You might be interested to know that the
                    update mechanism can be wired to call a makefile (or
                    other scripts?) to generate the required data, so it
                    is infact quite general. Only the "schematics"
                    attributes are really assumed to come from a simple
                    gschem work flow.</p>
                  <p dir="ltr">At some point, I may update xgsch2pcb to
                    use this new mechanism, rather than gsch2pcb. It
                    seems redundant to update gsch2pcb itself though.</p>
                  <p dir="ltr">Peter<br>
                  </p>
                </blockquote>
                I confess to never using the Import Schematics, probably
                because its only just appeared in the builds I have
                ready access to. I have never had any problems with the
                gsch2pcb workflow, like much of geda-gaf, it's quirky,
                but it works, and and you soon figure out how to make it
                do what is necessary.<br>
              </div>
            </blockquote>
          </div>
          <br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_extra" style="">It took me a long time to get
          around to trying it as well, for about the same reason.  It's
          worth it though, especially if you find yourself making a lot
          of small changes on the gschem side and routing them
          incrementally.</div>
        <div class="gmail_extra" style=""><br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_extra" style="">Britton</div>
        <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    I'm assuming we're still waiting for Peter's code to back-annotate
    changes from the pcb layout editor to the schematic editor?!
    Otherwise, netlist changes aren't usually too painful. It's a
    greater pain updating component values, doing a new BOM export, and
    merging the changes to my spreadsheet !! :P<br>
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