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Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2016 10:59:59 -0900
Message-ID: <CAC4O8c8zk8=Py1yX6fVqF+35SYe39Li=y4jZ8bCeZ1Ev8WccAg@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [geda-user] A fileformat library
From: "Britton Kerin (britton DOT kerin AT gmail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com]" <geda-user AT delorie DOT com>
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On Sun, Jan 3, 2016 at 6:25 PM, John Doty <jpd AT noqsi DOT com> wrote:

>
> On Jan 3, 2016, at 7:11 PM, Britton Kerin (britton DOT kerin AT gmail DOT com) [via
> geda-user AT delorie DOT com] <geda-user AT delorie DOT com> wrote:
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 3, 2016 at 7:38 AM, Nicklas Karlsson (
> nicklas DOT karlsson17 AT gmail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com] <
> geda-user AT delorie DOT com> wrote:
>
>> > As I've mentioned previously I'm talking pcb, which is a more painful
>> > format to parse (such that so far as I'm aware the parser in pcb is the
>> > only one).  Personally I find formats like this:
>> >
>> >   device=RESISTOR
>> >   T 44400 49300 5 10 1 1 90 0 1
>> >
>> > substantially less readable than ones with field names, but they are
>> indeed
>> > easy to parse.  The pcb format is quite a bit more elaborate and the
>> > savings from not rolling your own parser are more significant.
>>
>> Yes this is simple to parse, use little file space but do not have field
>> name. To use little file space and be simple to parse is actually two good
>> properties of a file format.
>>
>> Lack of field names may be worked around by having a list of field names
>> in the beginning. If this list of field names is sorted according to how
>> often they are used and each row only have to list used values it would
>> probably be a file format with rather good properties.
>>
>> To enumerate the field names at the beginning of the file may also be a
>> solution. Or maybe to use representation of data structures from a
>> programming language.
>>
>
> Although these are good measures, once you adopt them you may start asking
> yourself why you aren't just using a binary format.  The argument for text
> is that you can glance at a chunk of it and easily tell what's going on.
>
>
> A stronger argument for text is that you can process it with text-oriented
> tools.
>

But ultimately the reason for wanting to use those text-oriented tools is
the same: you can see what you're working on with your own eyes.  In every
other respect binary is better.

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te">On Sun, Jan 3, 2016 at 6:25 PM, John Doty <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:jpd AT noqsi DOT com" target=3D"_blank">jpd AT noqsi DOT com</a>&gt;</span> wr=
ote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border=
-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">=
<br><div><span class=3D""><div>On Jan 3, 2016, at 7:11 PM, Britton Kerin (<=
a href=3D"mailto:britton DOT kerin AT gmail DOT com" target=3D"_blank">britton DOT kerin AT g=
mail.com</a>) [via <a href=3D"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com" target=3D"_blan=
k">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>] &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com" =
target=3D"_blank">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br><blockquote=
 type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Jan 3, 2016 at 7:38 AM, Nicklas Karlsson (<a href=
=3D"mailto:nicklas DOT karlsson17 AT gmail DOT com" target=3D"_blank">nicklas.karlsson=
17 AT gmail DOT com</a>) [via <a href=3D"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com" target=3D"_=
blank">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>] <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:g=
eda-user AT delorie DOT com" target=3D"_blank">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>&gt;</span=
> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bo=
rder-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">&gt; As I&#39;ve mentioned previ=
ously I&#39;m talking pcb, which is a more painful<br>
&gt; format to parse (such that so far as I&#39;m aware the parser in pcb i=
s the<br>
&gt; only one).=C2=A0 Personally I find formats like this:<br>
<span>&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0device=3DRESISTOR<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0T 44400 49300 5 10 1 1 90 0 1<br>
&gt;<br>
</span><span>&gt; substantially less readable than ones with field names, b=
ut they are indeed<br>
</span>&gt; easy to parse.=C2=A0 The pcb format is quite a bit more elabora=
te and the<br>
<span>&gt; savings from not rolling your own parser are more significant.<b=
r>
<br>
</span>Yes this is simple to parse, use little file space but do not have f=
ield name. To use little file space and be simple to parse is actually two =
good properties of a file format.<br>
<br>
Lack of field names may be worked around by having a list of field names in=
 the beginning. If this list of field names is sorted according to how ofte=
n they are used and each row only have to list used values it would probabl=
y be a file format with rather good properties.<br>
<br>
To enumerate the field names at the beginning of the file may also be a sol=
ution. Or maybe to use representation of data structures from a programming=
 language.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Although these are good meas=
ures, once you adopt them you may start asking yourself why you aren&#39;t =
just using a binary format.=C2=A0 The argument for text is that you can gla=
nce at a chunk of it and easily tell what&#39;s going on.</div></div></div>=
</div></blockquote><div><br></div></span>A stronger argument for text is th=
at you can process it with text-oriented tools.</div></div></blockquote><di=
v><br></div><div style=3D"">But ultimately the reason for wanting to use th=
ose text-oriented tools is the same: you can see what you&#39;re working on=
 with your own eyes.=C2=A0 In every other respect binary is better.=C2=A0</=
div><div style=3D""><br></div></div></div></div>

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