X-Authentication-Warning:	delorie.com: mail set sender to geda-user-bounces using -f
X-Recipient:	geda-user AT delorie DOT com
X-Original-DKIM-Signature:	v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
	d=gmail.com; s=20120113;
	h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to
	:content-type;
	bh=zUp8JnI3jdSr1c5XKXBq9wMXoPd9WvY2w80k51cfsTY=;
	b=BGETFMeEuF44KXa7570XsYEbELPvRKWOB83p+8l92g8ntBjJ4Fdm7pgaPk7yCKroUD
	xhjA98Ay7Gs9+EqCAbTsSt9X4JIuIAk3f/YNeKOZkISkJ76cOkfyK7u6ikGqPorVoTWh
	3H7GBqaydIAqqx+Hj5nSRbNqgo50XBo/6jOYNAL596N4rg8DyptIM92cqHg02KBpKWTY
	LoQUUEYQUQPEfEqbZ3u5z3MAfgfE+XGVydJ+Fi6TkQ222UGi29hzaODbLSAx7RiC28aG
	XQcrdNgfUpkfyaCx/fEEaMu+WSjo+Hqpp1+yPb7hmGql9Mj0LmLJQLBFJDoANNAwCgXa
	vE0w==
MIME-Version:	1.0
X-Received:	by 10.28.1.23 with SMTP id 23mr31756043wmb.37.1451789256409; Sat,
	02 Jan 2016 18:47:36 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To:	<F498BB93-D43D-4E98-AC8B-5711ADC3DF41@noqsi.com>
References:	<1512221837 DOT AA25291 AT ivan DOT Harhan DOT ORG>
	<CAJXU7q_mXmipJ1fLvLpuLvnYjktV2SHoA+bG=L5+E-EfdygeOA AT mail DOT gmail DOT com>
	<s6n37uumanm DOT fsf AT blaulicht DOT dmz DOT brux>
	<CAJXU7q_qxdvJaejF-VcY=u7VHZ-zrfrc+Z7-qSwfFyPdy-umxw AT mail DOT gmail DOT com>
	<B02363CD-469D-493A-AC15-1D5DC7836982 AT noqsi DOT com>
	<20151222232230 DOT 12633 DOT qmail AT stuge DOT se>
	<0F6F1D0F-4F07-48EA-90FE-836EAD4E2354 AT noqsi DOT com>
	<CAM2RGhTficnys3a4xs=UBFvk8aPwpzYWUADFLP_pUQ+R1iKs0g AT mail DOT gmail DOT com>
	<0FCF3774-F93C-4BFF-BB61-636F75DCCACB AT noqsi DOT com>
	<CAC4O8c_UAiFE-vGfoE2tXppHLhaa0dSYz9o_rkdCBo7_SRRtxw AT mail DOT gmail DOT com>
	<FFBE7623-E240-4798-96B0-2BECF56C8E29 AT noqsi DOT com>
	<CAC4O8c980g1gj15=5njstC_BT-WYDgKQx9BRycdFKA8OvgtiOg AT mail DOT gmail DOT com>
	<B54C0E1F-1986-4C79-9F70-7F1919B8B26D AT noqsi DOT com>
	<CAC4O8c9bxJP1eMG4yz3YwKkQJRmsDGmLQ0aMd5pJRyu0WpdCtQ AT mail DOT gmail DOT com>
	<C1CFCCEE-C64A-4E49-AA64-446C061656D6 AT noqsi DOT com>
	<CAC4O8c-zt8B=joDd+ws77D2jt6aZf3MWfR_dAvpzGcNuBrTURQ AT mail DOT gmail DOT com>
	<alpine DOT DEB DOT 2 DOT 11 DOT 1601030040320 DOT 2176 AT newt>
	<CAC4O8c_R5xWLmzj_cz0g0mPWNs6mR4efjXKGBoup8YO6nwnPTA AT mail DOT gmail DOT com>
	<F498BB93-D43D-4E98-AC8B-5711ADC3DF41 AT noqsi DOT com>
Date:	Sat, 2 Jan 2016 17:47:36 -0900
Message-ID:	<CAC4O8c-5S-PgE=RFXrAG2xRzmV4x3odVip0eUwih-iEzXs-UOg@mail.gmail.com>
Subject:	Re: [geda-user] A fileformat library
From:	"Britton Kerin (britton DOT kerin AT gmail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com]" <geda-user AT delorie DOT com>
To:	geda-user AT delorie DOT com
Reply-To:	geda-user AT delorie DOT com
Errors-To:	nobody AT delorie DOT com
X-Mailing-List:	geda-user AT delorie DOT com
X-Unsubscribes-To:	listserv AT delorie DOT com

--001a113d7c3eeaca3f0528650672
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 4:38 PM, John Doty <jpd AT noqsi DOT com> wrote:

>
> On Jan 2, 2016, at 6:07 PM, Britton Kerin (britton DOT kerin AT gmail DOT com) [via
> geda-user AT delorie DOT com] <geda-user AT delorie DOT com> wrote:
>
> Personally I find formats like this:
>
>   device=3DRESISTOR
>   T 44400 49300 5 10 1 1 90 0 1
>
> substantially less readable than ones with field names, but they are
> indeed easy to parse.
>
>
> Personally, I rarely edit these things manually except for the text
> fields, which are not difficult to find. The fact that they=E2=80=99re ea=
sy to
> parse is handy for automation.
>
>   The pcb format is quite a bit more elaborate and the savings from not
> rolling your own parser are more significant.
>
> I think you're criteria for what should go in libgeda are spot-on btw.
> Nor do I have any problem with a C interface calling python or gschem or
> for that matter C++.  I do think providing a clean C interface to libgeda
> gets by far the best return on investment, since it's so widely known and
> with a little care wrappers can then be provided almost automatically for=
 a
> wide variety of languages (via SWIG or some other similar mechanism -- or
> maybe Xorn facilitates this, I'm a little unclear).
>
>
> I don=E2=80=99t find deconstructing C data structures particularly easier=
 than
> parsing the format above. Just another layer I have to penetrate to get t=
o
> the data. I do significant processing with simple things like sed, which
> don=E2=80=99t handle binary data.
>
> Wrappers CAN be provided, but will they? FFI programming is not the
> easiest thing. I hear  complaints about the need for developers to mainta=
in
> code. It seems to me that one way to address these concerns is to avoid a=
nd
> eliminate unnecessary code.
>

Good question.  It's a great result if you get it but a lot more work than
using a serialization library, which is why the latter approach seems to me
like a useful step in the right direction.

Britton

--001a113d7c3eeaca3f0528650672
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te">On Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 4:38 PM, John Doty <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:jpd AT noqsi DOT com" target=3D"_blank">jpd AT noqsi DOT com</a>&gt;</span> wr=
ote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border=
-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">=
<br><div><span class=3D""><div>On Jan 2, 2016, at 6:07 PM, Britton Kerin (<=
a href=3D"mailto:britton DOT kerin AT gmail DOT com" target=3D"_blank">britton DOT kerin AT g=
mail.com</a>) [via <a href=3D"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com" target=3D"_blan=
k">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>] &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com" =
target=3D"_blank">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br><blockquote=
 type=3D"cite"><div style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-styl=
e:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-=
height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-sp=
ace:normal;word-spacing:0px">Personally I find formats like this:<br><br>=
=C2=A0 device=3DRESISTOR<br>=C2=A0 T 44400 49300 5 10 1 1 90 0 1<br><br>sub=
stantially less readable than ones with field names, but they are indeed ea=
sy to parse.</div></blockquote><div><br></div></span>Personally, I rarely e=
dit these things manually except for the text fields, which are not difficu=
lt to find. The fact that they=E2=80=99re easy to parse is handy for automa=
tion.</div><div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span class=3D""><div style=
=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:nor=
mal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:=
start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0=
px">=C2=A0 The pcb format is quite a bit more elaborate and the savings fro=
m not rolling your own parser are more significant.<br></div><div style=3D"=
font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;=
font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:star=
t;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">=
<br></div></span><span class=3D""><div style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-=
size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-s=
pacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-tran=
sform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">I think you&#39;re criteria=
 for what should go in libgeda are spot-on btw.=C2=A0 Nor do I have any pro=
blem with a C interface calling python or gschem or for that matter C++.=C2=
=A0 I do think providing a clean C interface to libgeda gets by far the bes=
t return on investment, since it&#39;s so widely known and with a little ca=
re wrappers can then be provided almost automatically for a wide variety of=
 languages (via SWIG or some other similar mechanism -- or maybe Xorn facil=
itates this, I&#39;m a little unclear).</div></span></blockquote><br></div>=
<div>I don=E2=80=99t find deconstructing C data structures particularly eas=
ier than parsing the format above. Just another layer I have to penetrate t=
o get to the data. I do significant processing with simple things like sed,=
 which don=E2=80=99t handle binary data.</div><div><br></div><div>Wrappers =
CAN be provided, but will they? FFI programming is not the easiest thing. I=
 hear =C2=A0complaints about the need for developers to maintain code. It s=
eems to me that one way to address these concerns is to avoid and eliminate=
 unnecessary code.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div style=3D"">G=
ood question.=C2=A0 It&#39;s a great result if you get it but a lot more wo=
rk than using a serialization library, which is why the latter approach see=
ms to me like a useful step in the right direction.</div><div><br></div><di=
v style=3D"">Britton</div></div></div></div>

--001a113d7c3eeaca3f0528650672--

- Raw text -