Mail Archives: geda-user/2015/10/04/17:17:11
--f46d043c7fba6ade4805214deaad
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
On Sun, Oct 4, 2015 at 9:17 AM, Nicklas Karlsson (
nicklas DOT karlsson17 AT gmail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com] <
geda-user AT delorie DOT com> wrote:
> "The code is easy, short, and mostly based on that PhD thesis." If it is
> based on PhD thesis it probably have a very good theoretical base, can you
> bring some light ont this?
>
> The only thing I have against curved traces is the extra time needed tom
> make tghem.
>
> Nicklas Karlsson
>
>
> > On Sat, 2015-10-03 at 15:16 -0800, Britton Kerin
> > (britton DOT kerin AT gmail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com] wrote:
> > > How is your work on the topo router coming? I have a good blob of
> > > free time
> > > coming soon and I'm planning to spend it on router.
> > >
> > > It looks like your router does the layer part, and what's left is the
> > > the
> > > interlayer
> > > stuff? Are there still crashers in the intra-layer part?
> >
> > I have worked only in 2013 on that router. Was much fun and I was
> > impressed by the results. But there was nearly no interest by others, I
> > think here on the list was one moderately positive comment, and in a
> > German forum where I mentioned the router there was no reaction at all.
>
Well I thought it was all really exciting, but it wasn't obvious how it
could be integrated with pcb (being in Ruby). But now some serious efforts
are being considere to make a much more accessible file format (via sql and
YAML) so it could be provided as a stand-alone tool that would be useful to
pcb users.
> > People seem to prefer manually routing, and many seem to not like
> > curved traces.
> >
> > I do not really understand your term "intra-layer". My router is using
> > arbitrary numbers of layers, and it connect the layers with
> > automatically placed vias. Testing was done with two layers. I have
> > some problems remembering details, have not touched it for more than
> > too years. I think no crashes. The problem is, that there can remain
>
Great! I had the impression from pics on your site and something Kai said
that just the rubber band part was done.
> > unrouted traces due to space constraints. So some user interaction
> > would be needed, for example for moving parts. Coding that part would
> > be the fastest way to make that router useful, but coding that part is
> > not really much fun and take some time. And when no one is interested
> > at all? Making the router working without user interaction may be more
> > interesting, that would include moving components. But that is more
> > difficult and would need some time for coding.
>
I take it the remaining traces are really hard to subsequently add by
hand? Are there options other than moving parts to make is useful, maybe
somehow less ambitious or cost function rewards "ports" or something?
> > But I think I will continue at some time. The code is easy, short, and
> > mostly based on that PhD thesis. But I have never cleaned it up
> > unfortunately, and for latest CGAL and Ruby 2.2 some fixes may be
> > necessary. Porting to Nim would be nice, but for that I would have to
> > create bindings for CGAL first. Porting to C++ would be an option too
> > of course, then I need no CGAL bindings, and integration in PCB program
> > is easier. But that would be no fun for me.
>
I would rather it stay Ruby, rather than be ported to any of those other
things. In addition to not being fun it would make it less accessible I
think. I looked at the Ruby at the time and it seemed quite nice.
> >
> > Have you ever looked at the code of Anthony's toporouter? I tried a few
> > hours in 2012 and early 2013, but really understood nearly nothing.
>
I tried yes. Your Ruby is far more readable and maps much more clearly to
the thesis.
> > Maybe you can -- there may exists some really smart ideas in his code.
>
Like what?
> > And the advantage of his code was that it works inside of PCB program
> > already.
>
Honestly I have big doubts that it ever fully worked, or he would have hung
around to collect the plaudits rather than insulting everyone and vanishing
like he did. As for inside pcb, hopefully this will not be so big a deal
soon. It's a batch-mode algorithm anyway.
--f46d043c7fba6ade4805214deaad
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te">On Sun, Oct 4, 2015 at 9:17 AM, Nicklas Karlsson (<a href=3D"mailto:nic=
klas DOT karlsson17 AT gmail DOT com">nicklas DOT karlsson17 AT gmail DOT com</a>) [via <a href=
=3D"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>] <span dir=3D"l=
tr"><<a href=3D"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com" target=3D"_blank">geda-use=
r AT delorie DOT com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" st=
yle=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">"=
;The code is easy, short, and mostly based on that PhD thesis." If it =
is based on PhD thesis it probably have a very good theoretical base, can y=
ou bring some light ont this?<br>
<br>
The only thing I have against curved traces is the extra time needed tom ma=
ke tghem.<br>
<br>
Nicklas Karlsson<br>
<br>
<br>
> On Sat, 2015-10-03 at 15:16 -0800, Britton Kerin<br>
> (<a href=3D"mailto:britton DOT kerin AT gmail DOT com">britton DOT kerin AT gmail DOT com</a=
>) [via <a href=3D"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>]=
wrote:<br>
> > How is your work on the topo router coming?=C2=A0 I have a good b=
lob of<br>
> > free time<br>
> > coming soon and I'm planning to spend it on router.<br>
> ><br>
> > It looks like your router does the layer part, and what's lef=
t is the<br>
> > the<br>
> > interlayer<br>
> > stuff?=C2=A0 Are there still crashers in the intra-layer part?<br=
>
><br>
> I have worked only in 2013 on that router. Was much fun and I was<br>
> impressed by the results. But there was nearly no interest by others, =
I<br>
> think here on the list was one moderately positive comment, and in a<b=
r>
> German forum where I mentioned the router there was no reaction at all=
.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div style=3D"">Well I thought it was all =
really exciting, but it wasn't obvious how it could be integrated with =
pcb (being in Ruby).=C2=A0 But now some serious efforts are being considere=
to make a much more accessible file format (via sql and YAML) so it could =
be provided as a stand-alone tool that would be useful to pcb users.</div><=
div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8e=
x;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
> People seem to prefer manually routing, and many seem to not like<br>
> curved traces.<br>
><br>
> I do not really understand your term "intra-layer". My route=
r is using<br>
> arbitrary numbers of layers, and it connect the layers with<br>
> automatically placed vias. Testing was done with two layers. I have<br=
>
> some problems remembering details, have not touched it for more than<b=
r>
> too years. I think no crashes. The problem is, that there can remain<b=
r></blockquote><div><br></div><div style=3D"">Great!=C2=A0 I had the impres=
sion from pics on your site and something Kai said that just the rubber ban=
d part was done.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" st=
yle=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
> unrouted traces due to space constraints. So some user interaction<br>
> would be needed, for example for moving parts. Coding that part would<=
br>
> be the fastest way to make that router useful, but coding that part is=
<br>
> not really much fun and take some time. And when no one is interested<=
br>
> at all? Making the router working without user interaction may be more=
<br>
> interesting, that would include moving components. But that is more<br=
>
> difficult and would need some time for coding.<br></blockquote><div><b=
r></div><div style=3D"">I take it the remaining traces are really hard to s=
ubsequently add by hand?=C2=A0 Are there options other than moving parts to=
make is useful, maybe somehow less ambitious or cost function rewards &quo=
t;ports" or something?</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmai=
l_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left=
:1ex">
> But I think I will continue at some time. The code is easy, short, and=
<br>
> mostly based on that PhD thesis. But I have never cleaned it up<br>
> unfortunately, and for latest CGAL and Ruby 2.2 some fixes may be<br>
> necessary. Porting to Nim would be nice, but for that I would have to<=
br>
> create bindings for CGAL first. Porting to C++ would be an option too<=
br>
> of course, then I need no CGAL bindings, and integration in PCB progra=
m<br>
> is easier. But that would be no fun for me.<br>
</blockquote><div><br></div><div style=3D"">I would rather it stay Ruby, ra=
ther than be ported to any of those other things.=C2=A0 In addition to not =
being fun it would make it less accessible I think.=C2=A0 I looked at the R=
uby at the time and it seemed quite nice.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote=
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc soli=
d;padding-left:1ex">><br>
> Have you ever looked at the code of Anthony's toporouter? I tried =
a few<br>
> hours in 2012 and early 2013, but really understood nearly nothing.<br=
></blockquote><div><br></div><div style=3D"">I tried yes.=C2=A0 Your Ruby i=
s far more readable and maps much more clearly to the thesis.</div><div>=C2=
=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;borde=
r-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
> Maybe you can -- there may exists some really smart ideas in his code.=
<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div style=3D"">Like what?</div><div>=C2=A0=
</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-l=
eft:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
> And the advantage of his code was that it works inside of PCB program<=
br>
> already.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div style=3D"">Honestly I hav=
e big doubts that it ever fully worked, or he would have hung around to col=
lect the plaudits rather than insulting everyone and vanishing like he did.=
=C2=A0 As for inside pcb, hopefully this will not be so big a deal soon.=C2=
=A0 It's a batch-mode algorithm anyway.</div><div>=C2=A0</div></div></d=
iv></div>
--f46d043c7fba6ade4805214deaad--
- Raw text -