Mail Archives: geda-help/2020/09/03/03:01:40
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There are two other things to know for these sorts of applications
1) inkscape2pcb now exports (v0.92 inkscape) simple polygons to pcb-rnd
footprints, as well as paths, allowing application note designs like this
to be converted fairly easily from source documents to copper polygons.
Footprints can then be scaled in x, y or both directions in pcb-rnd too.
https://github.com/erichVK5/inkscape2pcb
2) pstoedit can do similar exports of postscript features to pcb layouts,
and the next release should include code for a plugin that exports polygons
to pcb-rnd footprints.
http://www.calvina.de/pstoedit/pstoedit.htm
The look and feel is much the same for pcb-rnd vs PCB, but keyboard
shortcuts have had to evolve to keep up with the features.
Regards,
Erich
On Thu, 3 Sep 2020 15:16 Roger Traylor (traylor AT engr DOT orst DOT edu) [via
geda-help AT delorie DOT com], <geda-help AT delorie DOT com> wrote:
> Erich,
>
> Thanks for the info. I figured pcb-rnd could probably handle this
> situation.
>
> Right now however, I need to get a job done. I=E2=80=99d like to try pcb=
-rnd as
> I've
> followed the development for a while but it feels like the =E2=80=9Ctrain=
has left
> the
> station=E2=80=9D as far as I=E2=80=99m concerned. It looks daunting to ge=
t started with
> and I
> see no on-ramp for beginners. Maybe for the next project.
>
> Thanks again,
> Roger
>
> On Sep 2, 2020, at 4:37 PM, Erich Heinzle (a1039181 AT gmail DOT com) [via
> geda-help AT delorie DOT com] <geda-help AT delorie DOT com> wrote:
>
> pcb-rnd allows polygons within footprint elements, as well as lines and
> arcs, which, in combination with terminals, can produce the sorts of
> structures you are playing with more easily.
>
> Importantly, there is also an "intnoconn" attribute that can be used on
> copper features within the footprint
>
> http://repo.hu/cgi-bin/pool.cgi?cmd=3Dshow&node=3Dintnoconn
>
> That can be used, for example within a pcb spiral inductor, so that the
> copper does not look like a short across the terminals.
>
> With the gEDA PCB footprint data model, you will have to paint the
> features with pads, will end up with a short with DRC, and will have a
> limited ability to manipulate the solder mask over the features, if neede=
d.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Erich
>
> On Thu, 3 Sep 2020 08:43 Roger Traylor (traylor AT engr DOT orst DOT edu) [via
> geda-help AT delorie DOT com], <geda-help AT delorie DOT com> wrote:
>
>> Gang,
>> A quick question for PCB gurus:
>>
>> I have a =E2=80=9Cfolded F=E2=80=9D antenna for 2.4Ghz. It has one open=
end, one input
>> for the signal
>> and one matching stub that is to be connected to ground.
>>
>> I drew this in PCB as a series of =E2=80=9Cpads=E2=80=9D. I attempted to=
make one pad =E2=80=9C1=E2=80=9D
>> the input,
>> and pad =E2=80=9C2=E2=80=9D as ground. gschem did not complain about th=
e symbol, but PCB
>> complains
>> about not being able to find pad "2" (the ground pin).
>>
>> Could this be because PCB sees all the pads overlapping as one pad? If
>> so, how can
>> I overcome this problem?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Roger Traylor
>>
>> Footprint file is below:
>>
>> Element[0x00000000 "" "" "" 0 0 0 0 0 100 0x00000000]
>> #Flipped Meander antenna for CC2500
>> #R. Traylor 7.27.2020
>> #50 ohm feed point is at end of segment 10
>> #requires via to ground plane at bottom of segment 11
>> #silk at bottom marks the edge of the ground plane
>> #see TI/Chipcon Application Note AN043
>> #This is the flipped version of the original meander antenna
>> #
>> (
>> # X1 Y1 X2 Y2 thick clear mask name
>> numb flag
>> # right side from origin
>> Pad[ 0 0 8661 0 1969 0 10000 "1"
>> "1" 0x00000100] #segment 0
>> Pad[ 8661 0 8661 -10394 1969 0 10000 "1"
>> "1" 0x00000100] #segment 1
>> Pad[ 8661 -10394 18504 -10394 1969 0 10000 "1"
>> "1" 0x00000100] #segment 2
>> Pad[ 18504 -10394 18504 0 1969 0 10000 "1"
>> "1" 0x00000100] #segment 3
>> Pad[ 18504 0 27165 0 1969 0 10000 "1"
>> "1" 0x00000100] #segment 4
>> Pad[ 27165 0 27165 -15512 1969 0 10000 "1"
>> "1" 0x00000100] #segment 5
>> # left side from origin
>> Pad[ 0 0 0 -10394 1969 0 10000 "1"
>> "1" 0x00000100] #segment 6
>> Pad[ 0 -10394 -9843 -10394 1969 0 10000 "1"
>> "1" 0x00000100] #segment 7
>> Pad[-9843 -10394 -9843 0 1969 0 10000 "1"
>> "1" 0x00000100] #segment 8
>> Pad[-9843 0 -27559 0 1969 0 10000 "1"
>> "1" 0x00000100] #segment 9
>> Pad[-18504 -787 -18504 -19281 1969 0 10000 "1"
>> "1" 0x00000100] #segment 10
>> Pad[-26772 -787 -26772 -18504 3543 0 10000 "2"
>> "2" 0x00000100] #segment 11
>> #silk lines
>> ElementLine[-30197 2559 29725 2559 700] #top
>> ElementLine[ 29725 2559 29725 -18307 700] #right
>> ElementLine[-30118 2559 -30118 -18307 700] #left
>> ElementLine[-30118 -18307 -29724 -18307 700] #bottom starting
>> from left
>> ElementLine[-23798 -18307 -20678 -18307 700] #segment between
>> vertical pieces
>> ElementLine[-16318 -18307 29564 -18307 700] #right-most segeme=
nt
>> )
>> # antenna layout
>> #
>> # * =3D origin
>> # -------s9-- *--s0--- ----s4--|
>> # | | | | | | |
>> # | | s8 s6 s1 s3 |
>> # | | | | | | s5
>> # s11 | |---s7---| |---s2--- |
>> # | | |
>> # | s10 |
>> # | | |
>> # | |
>> #
>>
>>
>>
>
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<div dir=3D"auto">There are two other things to know for these sorts of app=
lications<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">1) inkscape2pcb now =
exports (v0.92 inkscape) simple polygons to pcb-rnd footprints, as well as =
paths, allowing application note designs like this to be converted fairly e=
asily from source documents to copper polygons. Footprints can then be scal=
ed in x, y or both directions in pcb-rnd too.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></=
div><div dir=3D"auto"><a href=3D"https://github.com/erichVK5/inkscape2pcb">=
https://github.com/erichVK5/inkscape2pcb</a></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></d=
iv><div dir=3D"auto">2) pstoedit can do similar exports of postscript featu=
res to pcb layouts, and the next release should include code for a plugin t=
hat exports polygons to pcb-rnd footprints.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></di=
v><div dir=3D"auto"><a href=3D"http://www.calvina.de/pstoedit/pstoedit.htm"=
>http://www.calvina.de/pstoedit/pstoedit.htm</a><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"=
><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">The look and feel =
is much the same for pcb-rnd vs PCB, but keyboard shortcuts have had to evo=
lve to keep up with the features.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=
=3D"auto">Regards,</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Erich=
</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div=
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, 3 Sep 2020 15:16 Roger Traylor (<=
a href=3D"mailto:traylor AT engr DOT orst DOT edu" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer=
">traylor AT engr DOT orst DOT edu</a>) [via <a href=3D"mailto:geda-help AT delorie DOT com" =
target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">geda-help AT delorie DOT com</a>], <<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:geda-help AT delorie DOT com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">ged=
a-help AT delorie DOT com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote=
" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><=
div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space">Erich,<div>=
<br><div>Thanks for the info. I figured pcb-rnd could probably handle this =
situation.</div><div><br></div><div>Right now however, I need to get a job =
done.=C2=A0 I=E2=80=99d like to try pcb-rnd as I've</div><div>followed =
the development for a while but it feels like the =E2=80=9Ctrain has left t=
he=C2=A0</div><div>station=E2=80=9D as far as I=E2=80=99m concerned. It loo=
ks daunting to get started with and I</div><div>see no on-ramp for beginner=
s. Maybe for the next project.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks again,</div>=
<div>Roger<br><div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>On Sep 2, 2020, at 4:=
37 PM, Erich Heinzle (<a href=3D"mailto:a1039181 AT gmail DOT com" rel=3D"noreferr=
er noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">a1039181 AT gmail DOT com</a>) [via <a href=3D"ma=
ilto:geda-help AT delorie DOT com" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank"=
>geda-help AT delorie DOT com</a>] <<a href=3D"mailto:geda-help AT delorie DOT com" re=
l=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">geda-help AT delorie DOT com</a>>=
wrote:</div><br><div><div dir=3D"auto"><div>pcb-rnd allows polygons within=
footprint elements, as well as lines and arcs, which, in combination with =
terminals, can produce the sorts of structures you are playing with more ea=
sily.<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Importantly, there is al=
so an "intnoconn" attribute that can be used on copper features w=
ithin the footprint</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><a h=
ref=3D"http://repo.hu/cgi-bin/pool.cgi?cmd=3Dshow&node=3Dintnoconn" rel=
=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://repo.hu/cgi-bin/pool.cg=
i?cmd=3Dshow&node=3Dintnoconn</a><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div>=
<div dir=3D"auto">That can be used, for example within a pcb spiral inducto=
r, so that the copper does not look like a short across the terminals.</div=
><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">With the gEDA PCB footprint =
data model, you will have to paint the features with pads, will end up with=
a short with DRC, and will have a limited ability to manipulate the solder=
mask over the features, if needed.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div d=
ir=3D"auto"><br></div>Regards,</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D=
"auto">Erich<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote" dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"ltr=
" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, 3 Sep 2020 08:43 Roger Traylor (<a href=3D"m=
ailto:traylor AT engr DOT orst DOT edu" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank=
">traylor AT engr DOT orst DOT edu</a>) [via <a href=3D"mailto:geda-help AT delorie DOT com" =
rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">geda-help AT delorie DOT com</a>],=
<<a href=3D"mailto:geda-help AT delorie DOT com" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer"=
target=3D"_blank">geda-help AT delorie DOT com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquot=
e class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc sol=
id;padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-wh=
ite-space">Gang,<div>A quick question for PCB gurus:</div><div><br></div><d=
iv>I have a =E2=80=9Cfolded F=E2=80=9D antenna for 2.4Ghz.=C2=A0 It has one=
open end, one input for the signal</div><div>and one matching stub that is=
to be connected to ground.</div><div><br></div><div>I drew this in PCB as =
a series of =E2=80=9Cpads=E2=80=9D. I attempted to make one pad =E2=80=9C1=
=E2=80=9D =C2=A0the input,</div><div>and pad =E2=80=9C2=E2=80=9D as ground.=
=C2=A0gschem did not complain about the symbol, but PCB complains=C2=A0</d=
iv><div>about not being able to find pad "2" (the ground pin).=C2=
=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Could this be because PCB sees all the pads ov=
erlapping as one pad?=C2=A0 If so, how can</div><div>I overcome this proble=
m?</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks,</div><div>Roger Traylor</div><div><br><=
/div><div>Footprint file is below:</div><div><br></div><div><div><font face=
=3D"Courier" style=3D"font-size:12px">Element[0x00000000 "" "=
;" "" 0 0 0 0 0 100 0x00000000]</font></div><div><font face=
=3D"Courier" style=3D"font-size:12px">#Flipped Meander antenna for CC2500 =
=C2=A0</font></div><div><font face=3D"Courier" style=3D"font-size:12px">#R.=
Traylor 7.27.2020</font></div><div><font face=3D"Courier" style=3D"font-si=
ze:12px">#50 ohm feed point is at end of segment 10</font></div><div><font =
face=3D"Courier" style=3D"font-size:12px">#requires via to ground plane at =
bottom of segment 11</font></div><div><font face=3D"Courier" style=3D"font-=
size:12px">#silk at bottom marks the edge of the ground plane</font></div><=
div><font face=3D"Courier" style=3D"font-size:12px">#see TI/Chipcon Applica=
tion Note AN043</font></div><div><font face=3D"Courier" style=3D"font-size:=
12px">#This is the flipped version of the original meander antenna</font></=
div><div><font face=3D"Courier" style=3D"font-size:12px">#</font></div><div=
><font face=3D"Courier" style=3D"font-size:12px">(</font></div><div><font f=
ace=3D"Courier" style=3D"font-size:12px"># =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0X1 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Y1 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 X2 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 Y2 =C2=A0 =C2=A0thick =C2=A0clear =C2=A0mask =C2=A0name numb =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 flag</font></div><div><font face=3D"Courier" style=3D"font-si=
ze:12px"># right side from origin</font></div><div><font face=3D"Courier" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:12px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pad[ =C2=A0 =C2=A00 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 0 =C2=A0 =C2=A08661 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 0 =C2=A0 =C2=A01=
969 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 0 =C2=A0 10000 =C2=A0 "1" =C2=A0"1" 0=
x00000100] =C2=A0#segment 0</font></div><div><font face=3D"Courier" style=
=3D"font-size:12px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pad[ 8661 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 0 =C2=A0 =C2=A08661 =C2=A0 -10394 =C2=A0 1969 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 0 =C2=A0 10=
000 =C2=A0 "1" =C2=A0"1" 0x00000100] =C2=A0#segment 1</=
font></div><div><font face=3D"Courier" style=3D"font-size:12px">=C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pad[ 8661 =C2=A0 -10394 =C2=A018504 =C2=A0 -10394 =C2=A0 =
1969 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 0 =C2=A0 10000 =C2=A0 "1" =C2=A0"1" =
0x00000100] =C2=A0#segment 2</font></div><div><font face=3D"Courier" style=
=3D"font-size:12px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pad[ 18504 =C2=A0-10394 =C2=
=A018504 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 0 =C2=A0 =C2=A01969 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 0 =C2=A0 10=
000 =C2=A0 "1" =C2=A0"1" 0x00000100] =C2=A0#segment 3</=
font></div><div><font face=3D"Courier" style=3D"font-size:12px">=C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pad[ 18504 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A00 =C2=A0 27165 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 0 =C2=A0 =C2=A01969 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 0 =C2=A0 10000 =C2=A0 "1&=
quot; =C2=A0"1" 0x00000100] =C2=A0#segment 4</font></div><div><fo=
nt face=3D"Courier" style=3D"font-size:12px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pa=
d[ 27165 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A00 =C2=A0 27165 =C2=A0 -15512 =C2=A0 1969 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 0 =C2=A0 10000 =C2=A0 "1" =C2=A0"1" 0x000001=
00] =C2=A0#segment 5</font></div><div><font face=3D"Courier" style=3D"font-=
size:12px"># left side from origin =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0=C2=A0</font></div><div><font face=3D"Courier" style=3D"font-size:12p=
x">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pad[ =C2=A0 =C2=A00 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 0 =C2=A0 -10394 =C2=A0 1969 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 0 =C2=A0 100=
00 =C2=A0 "1" =C2=A0"1" 0x00000100] =C2=A0#segment 6</f=
ont></div><div><font face=3D"Courier" style=3D"font-size:12px">=C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pad[ =C2=A0 =C2=A00 =C2=A0 -10394 =C2=A0-9843 =C2=A0 -103=
94 =C2=A0 1969 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 0 =C2=A0 10000 =C2=A0 "1" =C2=A0&quo=
t;1" 0x00000100] =C2=A0#segment 7</font></div><div><font face=3D"Couri=
er" style=3D"font-size:12px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pad[-9843 =C2=A0 -=
10394 =C2=A0-9843 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 0 =C2=A0 =C2=A01969 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 0 =
=C2=A0 10000 =C2=A0 "1" =C2=A0"1" 0x00000100] =C2=A0#se=
gment 8</font></div><div><font face=3D"Courier" style=3D"font-size:12px">=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pad[-9843 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 0 =C2=A0-27559 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 0 =C2=A0 =C2=A01969 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 0 =C2=A0 10000 =C2=
=A0 "1" =C2=A0"1" 0x00000100] =C2=A0#segment 9</font></=
div><div><font face=3D"Courier" style=3D"font-size:12px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 Pad[-18504 =C2=A0 =C2=A0-787 -18504 =C2=A0 -19281 =C2=A0 1969 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 0 =C2=A0 10000 =C2=A0 "1" =C2=A0"1" 0x000=
00100] =C2=A0#segment 10</font></div><div><font face=3D"Courier" style=3D"f=
ont-size:12px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pad[-26772 =C2=A0 =C2=A0-787 -26=
772 =C2=A0 -18504 =C2=A0 3543 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 0 =C2=A0 10000 =C2=A0 "2&q=
uot; =C2=A0"2" 0x00000100] =C2=A0#segment 11</font></div><div><fo=
nt face=3D"Courier" style=3D"font-size:12px">#silk lines</font></div><div><=
font face=3D"Courier" style=3D"font-size:12px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0ElementLine[-30=
197 =C2=A02559 =C2=A029725 =C2=A0 2559 =C2=A0700] =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 #top=
</font></div><div><font face=3D"Courier" style=3D"font-size:12px">=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0ElementLine[ 29725 =C2=A02559 =C2=A029725 =C2=A0-18307 =C2=A0700] =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0#right</font></div><div><font face=3D"Courier" style=3D"fo=
nt-size:12px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0ElementLine[-30118 =C2=A02559 -30118 =C2=A0-1830=
7 =C2=A0700] =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0#left</font></div><div><font face=3D"Couri=
er" style=3D"font-size:12px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0ElementLine[-30118 =C2=A0-18307 -=
29724 =C2=A0-18307 =C2=A0700] =C2=A0 =C2=A0#bottom starting from left</font=
></div><div><font face=3D"Courier" style=3D"font-size:12px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0El=
ementLine[-23798 =C2=A0-18307 -20678 =C2=A0-18307 =C2=A0700] =C2=A0 =C2=A0#=
segment between vertical pieces</font></div><div><font face=3D"Courier" sty=
le=3D"font-size:12px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0ElementLine[-16318 =C2=A0-18307 =C2=A029=
564 =C2=A0-18307 =C2=A0700] =C2=A0 =C2=A0#right-most segement</font></div><=
div><font face=3D"Courier" style=3D"font-size:12px">)</font></div><div><fon=
t face=3D"Courier" style=3D"font-size:12px"># antenna layout</font></div><d=
iv><font face=3D"Courier" style=3D"font-size:12px">#</font></div><div><font=
face=3D"Courier" style=3D"font-size:12px"># * =3D origin</font></div><div>=
<font face=3D"Courier" style=3D"font-size:12px"># =C2=A0 =C2=A0 -------s9--=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*--s0--- =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ----s4--|</font><=
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