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Date:	Sun, 7 Mar 2021 20:19:13 +0100
From:	Kai-Martin Knaak <kmk AT familieknaak DOT de>
To:	<geda-help AT delorie DOT com>
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Subject:	[geda-help] How to get element outline off-board
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Roland Lutz <rlutz AT hedmen DOT org> schrieb am 25. February 2021:

> On Thu, 25 Feb 2021, Torben Friis (friistf AT gmail DOT com) [via=20
> geda-help AT delorie DOT com] wrote: =20
> > I have not been using the design software for some time. I have used=20
> > gEDA and lately Lepton/Lepton-cli(?). Now I am confused - should I
> > use gEDA or Lepton/Lepton-cli?   =20
>=20
> I'll let the gEDA/gaf 1.10 changelog speak for itself:
> http://git.geda-project.org/geda-gaf/tree/NEWS#n107 =20


This being a geda mailing list, a little context may be appropriate.
Version 1.10 is the first release since Roland effectively picked up the
torch to lead the gEDA/gaf development.=20

=3D=3D Improved gschem GUI
In 1.10 the gschem GUI got a major overhaul. The most obvious change is
probably the ability of dialogues to "dock" to the sides of the main
window. You still can configure the GUI for the traditional pop-up
window style. However, there is a reason why most high profile design
applications have switched to some kind of docked interface.
=20
The action items of gschem got reorganized in the menus. No worries, all
the accel keys stayed the same.=20

There are a couple of more subtle but still influential changes:
=20
* A double click on a sub circuit symbol brings you directly to the
  circuit.=20

* The symbol selection dialogue now deals gracefully with nested
  folders. Previous versions of geda would assume only two layers.

* Negative coordinates are accessible in the gschem GUI now. You can now
  set the origin to wherever you prefer your mouse to handle the symbol.

+ many more. See the changelog for the details.

=3D=3D Python for the back office
The most sweeping change since geda 1.8 refers to the back office.
Roland converted and essentially rewrote all the back-ends from scheme to
python. This is part of an effort to make geda not depend on guile.
The scheme dialect guile is a viable choice for an interpreted language
from a purely technical point of view. However, there is a glaring issue
that might be described as "social". Scheme and guile even more so
lacks popular adoption. Geda with its very niche topic and rather small
user base is one of the largest open source projects to actually use
guile. Only few users and even less potential developers are experienced
scheme users. In addition, the guile biotope tends to treat windows as
an afterthought. So guile 2.0 has not been available on MS Windows for
many years after guile 1.8 was declared obsolete. Consequently, there
has been no natively compiled windows version of geda since 2013.

The lack of a MS Windows version of geda certainly impacted adoption of
geda a lot - in particular in the maker scene. If you were to start an
open hardware project, would you use an EDA suite that essentially runs
on linux only? Or would you choose an alternative suite that is readily
available on the OS that most of your friends are already familiar with?
Over time, this effect accelerates itself. Everybody tends to use what
everybody uses.

Unfortunately, this left geda in the dark. Just about every high
profile open hardware project uses kicad these days. This fuelled the
controversy that led to the fork of geda. Is an infrastructure
based on scheme a valuable asset that just needs some polishing? Or is
guile an obstacle that needs to be removed to facilitate long time
survival of geda as a viable suite?

The developers who forked geda into lepton-eda firmly believe in the
former. While the main line of geda development works on the latter
approach.=20

TL;DR:=20
Use lepton-eda if you like scheme and enjoy hacking guile scripts to
adopt the suite to your special needs.
Stay with geda if you are more into python and would like to benefit
from the recent improvements of the gschem GUI.

---<)kaimartin(>---

PS: CC to geda-user because this involves a more general aspect of geda.
--=20
Kai-Martin Knaak
Email: kmk AT familieknaak DOT de
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