Mail Archives: geda-help/2020/09/03/19:55:13
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> On Sep 3, 2020, at 6:01 PM, Roland Lutz <rlutz AT hedmen DOT org> wrote:
>=20
> On Wed, 2 Sep 2020, John Doty wrote:
>> I favor Lepton [because] it=E2=80=99s agnostic about which layout =
program you use: it has no favored layout component. [=E2=80=A6]
>> The layout people I work with all have different favorite tools, so
>> decoupling schematic entry and layout is very important to me.
>=20
> This is absolutely the same for gEDA/gaf.
No, gEDA/gaf is joined to PCB. The tail wags the dog.
>=20
>> I found [Xorn-based gEDA] incomprehensible.
>=20
> Xorn is an internal component; you don't have to understand or even =
consciously interact with it in any way. (But even if you did, it's not =
more complicated than the Scheme API.)
Except if you=E2=80=99re writing back ends, you do. Or maybe you don=E2=80=
=99t call the API Xorn, I never could figure out what =E2=80=98Xorn=E2=80=99=
meant. It=E2=80=99s a critical problem: the freedom to adapt the tools =
to new jobs comes from the ease of writing back ends. But of course if =
gEDA exists to serve PCB, that doesn=E2=80=99t matter any more.
>=20
>> Guile is much easier to understand.
>=20
> You confuse being used to with understanding. I absolutely believe =
you that it's easier for you to work with Guile, as it's the thing you =
have been working with for a long time. Most people today, though, =
would find working with Python easier--or any other modern language, for =
that matter.
I=E2=80=99ve done things in Python. It wasn=E2=80=99t the problem. The =
problem was to figure out the API. Who, except you, has written a back =
end using your approach?
>=20
> I mean, just show this Scheme code
>=20
> =
https://github.com/rlutz/geda-gaf/blob/master/gnetlist-legacy/scheme/gnet-=
osmond.scm =
<https://github.com/rlutz/geda-gaf/blob/master/gnetlist-legacy/scheme/gnet=
-osmond.scm>
> and this equivalent Python code
>=20
> =
https://github.com/rlutz/geda-gaf/blob/master/xorn/src/backend/gnet_osmond=
.py
>=20
> to any younger tech person and ask them to figure out what's going on.
Yet there was quite a collection of back end authors for gEDA in Scheme, =
so it was apparently comprehensible to some, anyway.
>=20
> Roland
John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd.
jpd AT noqsi DOT com
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Sep 3, 2020, at 6:01 PM, Roland Lutz <<a =
href=3D"mailto:rlutz AT hedmen DOT org" class=3D"">rlutz AT hedmen DOT org</a>> =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Wed, 2 Sep 2020, John Doty wrote:<br class=3D""><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D"">I favor Lepton [because] it=E2=80=99s agnostic =
about which layout program you use: it has no favored layout component. =
[=E2=80=A6]<br class=3D"">The layout people I work with all have =
different favorite tools, so<br class=3D"">decoupling schematic entry =
and layout is very important to me.<br class=3D""></blockquote><br =
class=3D"">This is absolutely the same for gEDA/gaf.<br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div>No, =
gEDA/gaf is joined to PCB. The tail wags the dog.</div><div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">I found =
[Xorn-based gEDA] incomprehensible.<br class=3D""></blockquote><br =
class=3D"">Xorn is an internal component; you don't have to understand =
or even consciously interact with it in any way. (But even if you =
did, it's not more complicated than the Scheme API.)<br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div>Except if =
you=E2=80=99re writing back ends, you do. Or maybe you don=E2=80=99t =
call the API Xorn, I never could figure out what =E2=80=98Xorn=E2=80=99 =
meant. It=E2=80=99s a critical problem: the freedom to adapt the tools =
to new jobs comes from the ease of writing back ends. But of course if =
gEDA exists to serve PCB, that doesn=E2=80=99t matter any =
more.</div><div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D"">Guile is much easier to understand.<br =
class=3D""></blockquote><br class=3D"">You confuse being used to with =
understanding. I absolutely believe you that it's easier for you =
to work with Guile, as it's the thing you have been working with for a =
long time. Most people today, though, would find working with =
Python easier--or any other modern language, for that matter.<br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div>I=E2=80=99ve=
done things in Python. It wasn=E2=80=99t the problem. The problem was =
to figure out the API. Who, except you, has written a back end using =
your approach?</div><div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><br class=3D"">I mean, just =
show this Scheme code<br class=3D""><br class=3D""> <a =
href=3D"https://github.com/rlutz/geda-gaf/blob/master/gnetlist-legacy/sche=
me/gnet-osmond.scm" =
class=3D"">https://github.com/rlutz/geda-gaf/blob/master/gnetlist-legacy/s=
cheme/gnet-osmond.scm</a></div></div></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">and this equivalent Python code<br class=3D""><br class=3D""> =
<a =
href=3D"https://github.com/rlutz/geda-gaf/blob/master/xorn/src/backend/gne=
t_osmond.py" =
class=3D"">https://github.com/rlutz/geda-gaf/blob/master/xorn/src/backend/=
gnet_osmond.py</a><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">to any younger tech =
person and ask them to figure out what's going on.<br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div><div>Yet =
there was quite a collection of back end authors for gEDA in Scheme, so =
it was apparently comprehensible to some, anyway.</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div=
class=3D""><br class=3D"">Roland<br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""><div class=3D"">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
border-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; =
font-variant-position: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;"><div =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word;" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
border-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; =
font-variant-position: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;"><p =
style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D""><font face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" =
style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-family: Helvetica;" =
class=3D"">John Doty<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> =
<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-tab"> <span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span>Noqsi =
Aerospace, Ltd.</font></p><p style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"mailto:jpd AT noqsi DOT com" class=3D"">jpd AT noqsi DOT com</a></p><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></span></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br class=3D""></body></html>=
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