Mail Archives: geda-help/2019/08/22/09:12:04
--000000000000df81330590b43843
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
The only way to tell if a footprint is "correct" is to measure the part you
intend to install in it, and compare those dimensions against those of the
footprint. Every footprint in the library is correct for some version of
some part that was produced. You can generally trust that a SOIC-8 part
will fit on any version of a SOIC-8 footprint. However, the footprint
designer may have had reflow soldering in mind, and made the pads only
slightly larger than the pins, whereas you may have hand-soldering in mind
and will want larger pads that are easier to work with.
ECAD libraries of parts generally fall into two categories, "light" and
"heavy". We favor the light kind. In this kind of library, generally,
symbols are not associated with footprints, and that association is
something that the designer has to do. This allows you to use the same
symbol for a part that might have multiple packages. For example, you can
buy a 741 opamp in DIP packages, SOIC packages, TSSOP, VDFN... It's exactly
the same from an electrical perspective, only the physical realization is
different. With a light symbol, you use the same symbol to represent all of
these. Then you don't have to make the choice about what package to use
until you're ready to start designing the PCB.
There are also many symbols that are generic enough that they can refer to
any of a number of components. The op-amp symbol can refer to the LM741,
LMV321, TL971, and a slew of others. Similarly, the resistor, capacitor,
and inductor symbols can refer to any of a near infinite number of specific
parts. That means you don't have to generate a new symbol for a 210 ohm
resistor, 220 ohm resistor, 221 ohm, 226 ohm... etc.
In a heavy library, you do associate symbols with footprints. That means
that you're deciding which package to use when you put down the symbol on
the schematic. You may or may not be ready to do that when you're still
designing the electrical circuits. It also means that now you need to have
a symbol for each of the different packaging options (741 in a DIP-8, 741
in a SOIC-8, 741 in a TSSOP-8...). So, now we would end up with 10 symbols
for the 741 op-amp that were all identical, but with different footprint
properties.
The other issue with heavy symbols that can crop up if you're not careful
is if the footprint were to change. Perhaps you make a special version of a
SOIC-8 that has a heat sink pad underneath it for a part. Then maybe a year
later you copy that project to use a template for a new project. In the new
project you want the original footprint, but the way your paths are set up,
you unintentionally pick up the modified one from your previous project.
That said, there are some parts in the libraries that have unique
footprints. In those instances, you may see the footprint attached to the
symbol.
--Chad
On Sat, Aug 10, 2019 at 8:09 AM Torben Friis (friistf AT gmail DOT com) [via
geda-help AT delorie DOT com] <geda-help AT delorie DOT com> wrote:
> Hi Chad Parker,
> I am looking for 5 pin inline with a distance of 2.54 mm - the sym and fp
> file. I can find some fp files (jumpers) that I can use, but are they
> correct? How come sym file entries and fp file entries dont come in pairs?
> best regards
> torben
>
> On Thu, Aug 8, 2019 at 6:07 PM Torben Friis <friistf AT gmail DOT com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Chad Parker
>> That was wonderfully clear - thank you very much. I have found pcb.pdf.
>> best regards
>> torben
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 9:02 PM Chad Parker (parker DOT charles AT gmail DOT com)
>> [via geda-help AT delorie DOT com] <geda-help AT delorie DOT com> wrote:
>>
>>> The <alt>-s collision with settings menu has been resolved in master and
>>> will be available at the next release.
>>>
>>> To change the size of the drill holes for pins, select all of the pins
>>> you want to change by clicking them so that they turn blue. Then you can
>>> use the command :ChangeHoleSize(SelectedPins, +1, mm). Note, that this will
>>> fail if the final hole diameter is larger than the copper pad, so, you may
>>> need to increase the size of the pad first.
>>>
>>> Also note that any dimension that starts with a "+" or "-" is considered
>>> to be a delta relative to the current dimension. So, for example, if your
>>> hole diameter is 0.5 mm, and you executed :ChangeHoleSize(SelectedPins, +1,
>>> mm), then your hole will increase to 1.5 mm. However, if you execute
>>> :ChangeHoleSize(SelectedPins, 1, mm), then the hole size will become 1 mm.
>>>
>>> If using the GTK HID, you can get a list of the current key-bindings by
>>> looking in the "Info" menu.
>>>
>>> gEDA comprises many programs. Each individual program (should) have its
>>> own user's manual. pcb does, and it should ship with pcb. Search for the
>>> file "pcb.pdf" on your filesystem. It's probably in /usr/share/doc/pcb or
>>> /usr/local/share/doc/pcb.
>>>
>>> --Chad
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 10:58 AM Torben Friis (friistf AT gmail DOT com) [via
>>> geda-help AT delorie DOT com] <geda-help AT delorie DOT com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Glen,
>>>> Apparently I cant use PCB, but have to use PCB-GTK. When I do I get:
>>>>
>>>> From http://wiki.geda-project.org/geda:pcb-quick_reference:
>>>> Alt+S sizehole increase the hole of the object under the cursor
>>>> Alt+Shift+S sizehole (-) decrease the hole of the object under the
>>>> cursor
>>>> Ctrl+S sizehole increase the hole of the object under the cursor
>>>> Ctrl+Shift+S sizehole (-) decrease the hole size
>>>>
>>>> Alt+s gives me Settings, Ctl+s gives me nothing
>>>>
>>>> :ChangeSize(SelectedPins,+1,mm) gives me nothing
>>>>
>>>> There a lots of tutorials, but is'nt there an authoritative manual for
>>>> geda?
>>>> torben
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 3:01 PM Glen W. Ruch (gw DOT ruch AT yahoo DOT com) [via
>>>> geda-help AT delorie DOT com] <geda-help AT delorie DOT com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Torben:
>>>>>
>>>>> I typically accept the defaults.?? Since I usually only manually drill
>>>>> PCBs, I generally do not pay too much attention.
>>>>>
>>>>> I use *pcb*, and if your *pcb-gtk* is using the same user input,
>>>>> hovering the cursor over the hole and pressing just *s *should
>>>>> increase the *size* of the annular copper ring.?? (Seemingly without
>>>>> altering the hole diameter)?? Pressing just *k *will adjust the
>>>>> *klearance* (*sic*)
>>>>>
>>>>> You might find the YouTube video:
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6O817_G9VE interesting as he alters
>>>>> the sizes of vias, and I can do the same with DIP socket pins.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hope this helps.
>>>>> On 8/7/19 6:18 AM, Torben Friis (friistf AT gmail DOT com) [via
>>>>> geda-help AT delorie DOT com] wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Glen,
>>>>> Anyway, it works.
>>>>> I am trying to change drill size for a pin in PCB. I have tried
>>>>> :ChangeSize(SelectedPins, +2000) (how do I select a pin?) and Alt+s while I
>>>>> place the crossed lines on a pin, but nothing changes.
>>>>> If I succeed in changing the?? drill size (which by the way is called
>>>>> drill width), will the other dimensions (annular, etc) stay unchanged)?
>>>>> best regards
>>>>> torben
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Aug 5, 2019 at 1:38 PM Glen W. Ruch (gw DOT ruch AT yahoo DOT com) [via
>>>>> geda-help AT delorie DOT com] <geda-help AT delorie DOT com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Torben:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am not seeing the issue.?? Probably because I did not receive
>>>>>> Saturday's message with the attachment.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At this point I cannot tell if you are installing from your distro's
>>>>>> repositories or cloning the github for local compiling.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If compiling locally, there are quite a number of -devel files that
>>>>>> must be installed from your distro's repository before you can start the
>>>>>> build process.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hope this helps
>>>>>> On 8/5/19 5:43 AM, Torben Friis (friistf AT gmail DOT com) [via
>>>>>> geda-help AT delorie DOT com] wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Erich and Glen,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have run the geda:gsch2pcb_tutorial again and I get the same result.
>>>>>> I have installed gtk2.0 (sudo apt-get install gtk2.0) and have
>>>>>> packages:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ii ??gtk-update-ico 3.22.30-1ubu amd64 ?? ?? ?? ??icon theme caching
>>>>>> utility
>>>>>> ii ??gtk2-engines-m 0.98.2-2ubun amd64 ?? ?? ?? ??cairo-based
>>>>>> gtk+-2.0 theme engine
>>>>>> ii ??gtk2-engines-p 2.24.32-1ubu amd64 ?? ?? ?? ??pixbuf-based theme
>>>>>> for GTK+ 2.x
>>>>>> ii ??gtk2.0-example 2.24.32-1ubu amd64 ?? ?? ?? ??example files for
>>>>>> GTK+ 2.0
>>>>>>
>>>>>> and:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ii ??pcb ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ??1:4.0.2-4 ?? ??all ?? ?? ?? ?? ??printed
>>>>>> circuit board (pcb) desig
>>>>>> ii ??pcb-common ?? ?? 1:4.0.2-4 ?? ??all ?? ?? ?? ?? ??printed
>>>>>> circuit board (pcb) desig
>>>>>> ii ??pcb-gtk ?? ?? ?? ??1:4.0.2-4 ?? ??amd64 ?? ?? ?? ??printed
>>>>>> circuit board (pcb) desig
>>>>>> ii ??pcb-lesstif ?? ??1:4.0.2-4 ?? ??amd64 ?? ?? ?? ??printed circuit
>>>>>> board (pcb) desig
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The board.pcb file starts:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> torben AT torben-Aspire-E5-773G:~/gaf/myproject1$ cat board.pcb
>>>>>> # release: pcb 1.99x
>>>>>> # To read pcb files, the pcb version (or the cvs source date) must be
>>>>>> >= the file version
>>>>>> FileVersion[20070407]
>>>>>> PCB["" 600000 500000]
>>>>>> Grid[10000.000000 0 0 0]
>>>>>> Cursor[0 0 0.000000]
>>>>>> PolyArea[200000000.000000]
>>>>>> Thermal[0.500000]
>>>>>> DRC[1000 1000 1000 1000 1500 1000]
>>>>>> Flags("nameonpcb,uniquename,clearnew,snappin")
>>>>>> Groups("1,c:2:3:4:5:6,s:7:8")
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Styles["Signal,1000,3600,2000,1000:Power,2500,6000,3500,1000:Fat,4000,6000,3500,1000:Skinny,600,2402,1181,600"]
>>>>>> Element(0x00 "TO92" "Q201" "2N3904" 0 0 0 100 0x00)
>>>>>> (
>>>>>> Pin(250 200 72 42 "1" 0x101)
>>>>>> .
>>>>>> .
>>>>>> .
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Can you see anything wrong?
>>>>>> It's a real mystery.
>>>>>> best regards
>>>>>> torben
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Aug 3, 2019 at 4:46 PM Torben Friis <friistf AT gmail DOT com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Erich and Glen,
>>>>>>> I have started from scratch (uninstalling - installing gEDA,??
>>>>>>> restarting the computer.) without using sudo and I have installed gtk (sudo
>>>>>>> apt install gtk+3.0) and the result is shown in the attached screen dump.
>>>>>>> Same result, but there is something about gtk that I may have
>>>>>>> misunderstood.
>>>>>>> best regards
>>>>>>> torben
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Aug 2, 2019 at 8:07 AM Glen W. Ruch (gw DOT ruch AT yahoo DOT com)
>>>>>>> [via geda-help AT delorie DOT com] <geda-help AT delorie DOT com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> P.S.
>>>>>>>> You may also want to do a *ls -l *(list -long) to see how many
>>>>>>>> files still belong to you and how many belong to root.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You may want to *sudo chown* to move the files back to the correct
>>>>>>>> owner.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On my computer there is a difference between the user default
>>>>>>>> permissions and root's default permissions.?? You may want to correct the
>>>>>>>> permissions with *sudo chmod*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 8/1/19 4:34 PM, Glen W. Ruch (gw DOT ruch AT yahoo DOT com) [via
>>>>>>>> geda-help AT delorie DOT com] wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Torben:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You should not have to use *sudo* *(SuperUser DO) *as this
>>>>>>>> elevates you from your user level (torben) to root user.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This may be causing issues where you are saving files as user
>>>>>>>> *torben*, but when you become root, root's directory may be
>>>>>>>> checked for the file.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> sudo is a dangerous tool and is meant to be used for specific uses
>>>>>>>> such as installing software.?? Using it excessively can cause a typo to
>>>>>>>> have catastrophic consequences.?? When your computer is configured
>>>>>>>> correctly you should be able to run *gschem* or *pcb* (etc.) with
>>>>>>>> your own user (torben) level privileges.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hope this helps.
>>>>>>>> On 7/30/19 7:11 AM, Torben Friis (friistf AT gmail DOT com) [via
>>>>>>>> geda-help AT delorie DOT com] wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>> Is Wilson's tutorial up-to-date? I run:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> torben AT torben-Aspire-E5-773G:~/gaf/myproject3$ sudo gsch2pcb
>>>>>>>> project
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> with 2 resistors and get:
>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------
>>>>>>>> Done processing.?? Work performed:
>>>>>>>> 2 file elements and 0 m4 elements added to board.pcb.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Next step:
>>>>>>>> 1.?? Run pcb on your file board.pcb.
>>>>>>>> ?? ?? You will find all your footprints in a bundle ready for you
>>>>>>>> to place
>>>>>>>> ?? ?? or disperse with "Select -> Disperse all elements" in PCB.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2.?? From within PCB, select "File -> Load netlist file" and select
>>>>>>>> ?? ?? board.net to load the netlist.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 3.?? From within PCB, enter
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ??:ExecuteFile(board.cmd)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ?? ?? to propagate the pin names of all footprints to the layout.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I then run:
>>>>>>>> torben AT torben-Aspire-E5-773G:~/gaf/myproject3$ sudo pcb board.pcb
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> and get:
>>>>>>>> File 'board.pcb' has no font information, using default font
>>>>>>>> ??
>>>>>>>> I then get the rather empty looking screen shown attached.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I can disperse the components and run the netlist, but when I run
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> sudo :ExecuteFile(board.cmd) (or :ExecuteFile(board.cmd))
>>>>>>>> ??nothing happens
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Incidentally, when I run:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> sudo gschem one.sch
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the curser moves to the next line. It looks as if some input is
>>>>>>>> expected. What?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Can anyone help?
>>>>>>>> best regards
>>>>>>>> torben
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 14, 2019 at 3:04 PM Torben Friis <friistf AT gmail DOT com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi ,
>>>>>>>>> I have been looking fo the above element, but I cannot find it. I
>>>>>>>>> have been looking for .../newlib and found it in two places, but neither
>>>>>>>>> one appeared to provide it.
>>>>>>>>> Is there anywhere else I can look for it?
>>>>>>>>> torben
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
--000000000000df81330590b43843
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>The only way to tell if a footprint is "correct&=
quot; is to measure the part you intend to install in it, and compare those=
dimensions against those of the footprint. Every footprint in the library =
is correct for some version of some part that was produced. You can general=
ly trust that a SOIC-8 part will fit on any version of a SOIC-8 footprint. =
However, the footprint designer may have had reflow soldering in mind, and =
made the pads only slightly larger than the pins, whereas you may have hand=
-soldering in mind and will want larger pads that are easier to work with.<=
br></div><div><br></div><div>ECAD libraries of parts generally fall into tw=
o categories, "light" and "heavy". We favor the light k=
ind. In this kind of library, generally, symbols are not associated with fo=
otprints, and that association is something that the designer has to do. Th=
is allows you to use the same symbol for a part that might have multiple pa=
ckages. For example, you can buy a 741 opamp in DIP packages, SOIC packages=
, TSSOP, VDFN... It's exactly the same from an electrical perspective, =
only the physical realization is different. With a light symbol, you use th=
e same symbol to represent all of these. Then you don't have to make th=
e choice about what package to use until you're ready to start designin=
g the PCB. <br></div><div><br></div><div>There are also many symbols that a=
re generic enough that they can refer to any of a number of components. The=
op-amp symbol can refer to the LM741, LMV321, TL971, and a slew of others.=
Similarly, the resistor, capacitor, and inductor symbols can refer to any =
of a near infinite number of specific parts. That means you don't have =
to generate a new symbol for a 210 ohm resistor, 220 ohm resistor, 221 ohm,=
226 ohm... etc.<br></div><div><br></div><div>In a heavy library, you do as=
sociate symbols with footprints. That means that you're deciding which =
package to use when you put down the symbol on the schematic. You may or ma=
y not be ready to do that when you're still designing the electrical ci=
rcuits. It also means that now you need to have a symbol for each of the di=
fferent packaging options (741 in a DIP-8, 741 in a SOIC-8, 741 in a TSSOP-=
8...). So, now we would end up with 10 symbols for the 741 op-amp that were=
all identical, but with different footprint properties.</div><div><br></di=
v><div>The other issue with heavy symbols that can crop up if you're no=
t careful is if the footprint were to change. Perhaps you make a special ve=
rsion of a SOIC-8 that has a heat sink pad underneath it for a part. Then m=
aybe a year later you copy that project to use a template for a new project=
. In the new project you want the original footprint, but the way your path=
s are set up, you unintentionally pick up the modified one from your previo=
us project.</div><div><br></div><div>That said, there are some parts in the=
libraries that have unique footprints. In those instances, you may see the=
footprint attached to the symbol.</div><div><br></div><div>--Chad<br></div=
></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr"=
>On Sat, Aug 10, 2019 at 8:09 AM Torben Friis (<a href=3D"mailto:friistf AT gm=
ail.com">friistf AT gmail DOT com</a>) [via <a href=3D"mailto:geda-help AT delorie DOT co=
m">geda-help AT delorie DOT com</a>] <<a href=3D"mailto:geda-help AT delorie DOT com">=
geda-help AT delorie DOT com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,20=
4);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D=
"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large">Hi Chad Parker,</d=
iv><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-s=
erif;font-size:large">I am looking for 5 pin inline with a distance of 2.54=
mm - the sym and fp file. I can find some fp files (jumpers) that I can us=
e, but are they correct? How come sym file entries and fp file entries dont=
come in pairs?</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:aria=
l,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large">best regards</div><div class=3D"gma=
il_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large=
">torben<br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" cla=
ss=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Aug 8, 2019 at 6:07 PM Torben Friis <<a href=
=3D"mailto:friistf AT gmail DOT com" target=3D"_blank">friistf AT gmail DOT com</a>> w=
rote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0p=
x 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,=
sans-serif;font-size:large">Hi Chad Parker</div><div class=3D"gmail_default=
" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large">That was=
wonderfully clear - thank you very much. I have found pcb.pdf.</div><div c=
lass=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font=
-size:large">best regards</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-f=
amily:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large">torben<br></div></div><br=
><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, A=
ug 7, 2019 at 9:02 PM Chad Parker (<a href=3D"mailto:parker DOT charles AT gmail DOT c=
om" target=3D"_blank">parker DOT charles AT gmail DOT com</a>) [via <a href=3D"mailto:=
geda-help AT delorie DOT com" target=3D"_blank">geda-help AT delorie DOT com</a>] <<a =
href=3D"mailto:geda-help AT delorie DOT com" target=3D"_blank">geda-help AT delorie DOT c=
om</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margi=
n:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex=
"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>The <alt>-s collision with settings menu has =
been resolved in master and will be available at the next release.</div><di=
v><br></div><div>To change the size of the drill holes for pins, select all=
of the pins you want to change by clicking them so that they turn blue. Th=
en you can use the command :ChangeHoleSize(SelectedPins, +1, mm). Note, tha=
t this will fail if the final hole diameter is larger than the copper pad, =
so, you may need to increase the size of the pad first. <br></div><div><br>=
</div><div>Also note that any dimension that starts with a "+" or=
"-" is considered to be a delta relative to the current dimensio=
n. So, for example, if your hole diameter is 0.5 mm, and you executed :Chan=
geHoleSize(SelectedPins, +1, mm), then your hole will increase to 1.5 mm. H=
owever, if you execute :ChangeHoleSize(SelectedPins, 1, mm), then the hole =
size will become 1 mm.<br></div><div><br></div><div>If using the GTK HID, y=
ou can get a list of the current key-bindings by looking in the "Info&=
quot; menu.</div><div><br></div><div>gEDA comprises many programs. Each ind=
ividual program (should) have its own user's manual. pcb does, and it s=
hould ship with pcb. Search for the file "pcb.pdf" on your filesy=
stem. It's probably in /usr/share/doc/pcb or /usr/local/share/doc/pcb.<=
/div><div><br></div><div>--Chad<br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quot=
e"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 10:58 AM To=
rben Friis (<a href=3D"mailto:friistf AT gmail DOT com" target=3D"_blank">friistf@=
gmail.com</a>) [via <a href=3D"mailto:geda-help AT delorie DOT com" target=3D"_bla=
nk">geda-help AT delorie DOT com</a>] <<a href=3D"mailto:geda-help AT delorie DOT com"=
target=3D"_blank">geda-help AT delorie DOT com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquot=
e class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px s=
olid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmai=
l_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large"=
>Hi Glen,</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helv=
etica,sans-serif;font-size:large">Apparently I cant use PCB, but have to us=
e PCB-GTK. When I do I get:</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font=
-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large"><br></div><div class=3D=
"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:l=
arge">From <a href=3D"http://wiki.geda-project.org/geda:pcb-quick_reference=
" target=3D"_blank">http://wiki.geda-project.org/geda:pcb-quick_reference</=
a>:</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,=
sans-serif;font-size:large">Alt+S sizehole increase the hole of the objec=
t under the cursor<br>Alt+Shift+S sizehole (-) decrease the hole of the o=
bject under the cursor<br>Ctrl+S sizehole increase the hole of the object=
under the cursor<br>Ctrl+Shift+S sizehole (-) decrease the hole size<br>=
<br>Alt+s gives me Settings, Ctl+s gives me nothing<br><br>:ChangeSize(Sele=
ctedPins,+1,mm) gives me nothing</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D=
"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large"><br></div><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-s=
ize:large">There a lots of tutorials, but is'nt there an authoritative =
manual for geda?</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:ari=
al,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large">torben</div><div class=3D"gmail_de=
fault" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large"><br=
></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sa=
ns-serif;font-size:large"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"f=
ont-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large"><br></div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-siz=
e:large"><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" cl=
ass=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 3:01 PM Glen W. Ruch (<a href=3D"=
mailto:gw DOT ruch AT yahoo DOT com" target=3D"_blank">gw DOT ruch AT yahoo DOT com</a>) [via <a =
href=3D"mailto:geda-help AT delorie DOT com" target=3D"_blank">geda-help AT delorie DOT c=
om</a>] <<a href=3D"mailto:geda-help AT delorie DOT com" target=3D"_blank">geda=
-help AT delorie DOT com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote"=
style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);p=
adding-left:1ex">
=20
=20
=20
<div bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">
<p>Torben:</p>
<p>I typically accept the defaults.?? Since I usually only manually
drill PCBs, I generally do not pay too much attention.</p>
<p>I use <i><b>pcb</b></i>, and if your <i><b>pcb-gtk</b></i> is
using the same user input, hovering the cursor over the hole and
pressing just <i><b>s </b></i>should increase the <i><b>size</b></i>
of the annular copper ring.?? (Seemingly without altering the hole
diameter)?? Pressing just <i><b>k </b></i>will adjust the <i><b>klear=
ance</b></i>
(<i>sic</i>) <br>
</p>
<p>You might find the YouTube video: <a href=3D"https://www.youtube.com=
/watch?v=3Ds6O817_G9VE" target=3D"_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=
=3Ds6O817_G9VE</a>
interesting as he alters the sizes of vias, and I can do the same
with DIP socket pins.</p>
<p>Hope this helps.<br>
</p>
<div class=3D"gmail-m_-6293932441749985812gmail-m_-2103412527043690363g=
mail-m_-5714977154857875969gmail-m_-8853563024957483338gmail-m_-35528978442=
07147919moz-cite-prefix">On 8/7/19 6:18 AM, Torben Friis
(<a class=3D"gmail-m_-6293932441749985812gmail-m_-2103412527043690363=
gmail-m_-5714977154857875969gmail-m_-8853563024957483338gmail-m_-3552897844=
207147919moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:friistf AT gmail DOT com" target=
=3D"_blank">friistf AT gmail DOT com</a>) [via <a class=3D"gmail-m_-62939324417499=
85812gmail-m_-2103412527043690363gmail-m_-5714977154857875969gmail-m_-88535=
63024957483338gmail-m_-3552897844207147919moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D=
"mailto:geda-help AT delorie DOT com" target=3D"_blank">geda-help AT delorie DOT com</a>]=
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
=20
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,s=
ans-serif;font-size:large">Hi
Glen,</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,s=
ans-serif;font-size:large">Anyway,
it works.</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,s=
ans-serif;font-size:large">I
am trying to change drill size for a pin in PCB. I have tried
:ChangeSize(SelectedPins, +2000) (how do I select a pin?) and
Alt+s while I place the crossed lines on a pin, but nothing
changes.</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,s=
ans-serif;font-size:large">If
I succeed in changing the?? drill size (which by the way is
called drill width), will the other dimensions (annular, etc)
stay unchanged)?</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,s=
ans-serif;font-size:large">best
regards</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,s=
ans-serif;font-size:large">torben<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Aug 5, 2019 at 1:38 P=
M
Glen W. Ruch (<a href=3D"mailto:gw DOT ruch AT yahoo DOT com" target=3D"_bla=
nk">gw DOT ruch AT yahoo DOT com</a>) [via <a href=3D"mailto:geda-help AT delorie DOT com" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">geda-help AT delorie DOT com</a>]
<<a href=3D"mailto:geda-help AT delorie DOT com" target=3D"_blank">ge=
da-help AT delorie DOT com</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex=
;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">
<p>Torben:<br>
<br>
I am not seeing the issue.?? Probably because I did not
receive Saturday's message with the attachment. <br>
<br>
At this point I cannot tell if you are installing from
your distro's repositories or cloning the github for loca=
l
compiling.<br>
<br>
If compiling locally, there are quite a number of -devel
files that must be installed from your distro's repositor=
y
before you can start the build process.<br>
<br>
Hope this helps<br>
</p>
<div class=3D"gmail-m_-6293932441749985812gmail-m_-210341252704=
3690363gmail-m_-5714977154857875969gmail-m_-8853563024957483338gmail-m_-355=
2897844207147919gmail-m_5351962411090118364moz-cite-prefix">On
8/5/19 5:43 AM, Torben Friis (<a class=3D"gmail-m_-6293932441=
749985812gmail-m_-2103412527043690363gmail-m_-5714977154857875969gmail-m_-8=
853563024957483338gmail-m_-3552897844207147919gmail-m_5351962411090118364mo=
z-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:friistf AT gmail DOT com" target=3D"_blank"=
>friistf AT gmail DOT com</a>) [via <a class=3D"gmail-m_-6293932441749985812gmail-=
m_-2103412527043690363gmail-m_-5714977154857875969gmail-m_-8853563024957483=
338gmail-m_-3552897844207147919gmail-m_5351962411090118364moz-txt-link-abbr=
eviated" href=3D"mailto:geda-help AT delorie DOT com" target=3D"_blank">geda-help@=
delorie.com</a>] wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,hel=
vetica,sans-serif;font-size:large">Hi
Erich and Glen,<br>
<br>
I have run the geda:gsch2pcb_tutorial again and I get
the same result.<br>
I have installed gtk2.0 (sudo apt-get install gtk2.0)
and have packages:<br>
<br>
ii ??gtk-update-ico 3.22.30-1ubu amd64 ?? ?? ?? ??icon
theme caching utility<br>
ii ??gtk2-engines-m 0.98.2-2ubun amd64 ?? ?? ??
??cairo-based gtk+-2.0 theme engine<br>
ii ??gtk2-engines-p 2.24.32-1ubu amd64 ?? ?? ??
??pixbuf-based theme for GTK+ 2.x<br>
ii ??gtk2.0-example 2.24.32-1ubu amd64 ?? ?? ??
??example files for GTK+ 2.0<br>
<br>
and:<br>
<br>
ii ??pcb ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ??1:4.0.2-4 ?? ??all ?? ?? ??
?? ??printed circuit board (pcb) desig<br>
ii ??pcb-common ?? ?? 1:4.0.2-4 ?? ??all ?? ?? ?? ??
??printed circuit board (pcb) desig<br>
ii ??pcb-gtk ?? ?? ?? ??1:4.0.2-4 ?? ??amd64 ?? ?? ??
??printed circuit board (pcb) desig<br>
ii ??pcb-lesstif ?? ??1:4.0.2-4 ?? ??amd64 ?? ?? ??
??printed circuit board (pcb) desig<br>
<br>
The board.pcb file starts:<br>
<br>
torben AT torben-Aspire-E5-773G:~/gaf/myproject1$ cat
board.pcb<br>
# release: pcb 1.99x<br>
# To read pcb files, the pcb version (or the cvs
source date) must be >=3D the file version<br>
FileVersion[20070407]<br>
PCB["" 600000 500000]<br>
Grid[10000.000000 0 0 0]<br>
Cursor[0 0 0.000000]<br>
PolyArea[200000000.000000]<br>
Thermal[0.500000]<br>
DRC[1000 1000 1000 1000 1500 1000]<br>
Flags("nameonpcb,uniquename,clearnew,snappin")<=
br>
Groups("1,c:2:3:4:5:6,s:7:8")<br>
Styles["Signal,1000,3600,2000,1000:Power,2500,6000,3500,1000:Fat,4000,=
6000,3500,1000:Skinny,600,2402,1181,600"]<br>
Element(0x00 "TO92" "Q201" "2N39=
04" 0 0 0 100 0x00)<br>
(<br>
Pin(250 200 72 42 "1" 0x101)<br>
.<br>
.<br>
.<br>
<br>
Can you see anything wrong?<br>
It's a real mystery.<br>
best regards<br>
torben<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Aug 3, 2019 a=
t
4:46 PM Torben Friis <<a href=3D"mailto:friistf AT gmail.=
com" target=3D"_blank">friistf AT gmail DOT com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0=
px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial=
,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large">Hi
Erich and Glen,</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial=
,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large">I
have started from scratch (uninstalling -
installing gEDA,?? restarting the computer.)
without using sudo and I have installed gtk (sudo
apt install gtk+3.0) and the result is shown in
the attached screen dump.</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial=
,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large">Same
result, but there is something about gtk that I
may have misunderstood.</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial=
,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large">best
regards<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial=
,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large">torben<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, Aug 2,
2019 at 8:07 AM Glen W. Ruch (<a href=3D"mailto:gw.ru=
ch AT yahoo DOT com" target=3D"_blank">gw DOT ruch AT yahoo DOT com</a>)
[via <a href=3D"mailto:geda-help AT delorie DOT com" target=
=3D"_blank">geda-help AT delorie DOT com</a>]
<<a href=3D"mailto:geda-help AT delorie DOT com" target=
=3D"_blank">geda-help AT delorie DOT com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0=
px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">
<p>P.S.<br>
You may also want to do a <b>ls -l </b>(list
-long) to see how many files still belong to
you and how many belong to root.</p>
<p>You may want to <b>sudo chown</b> to move
the files back to the correct owner.</p>
<p>On my computer there is a difference between
the user default permissions and root's
default permissions.?? You may want to correct
the permissions with <b>sudo chmod</b><br>
</p>
<p>Regards.<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class=3D"gmail-m_-6293932441749985812gmail-m_-=
2103412527043690363gmail-m_-5714977154857875969gmail-m_-8853563024957483338=
gmail-m_-3552897844207147919gmail-m_5351962411090118364gmail-m_656829109310=
9405877gmail-m_-428759268849965292moz-cite-prefix">On
8/1/19 4:34 PM, Glen W. Ruch (<a class=3D"gmail-m=
_-6293932441749985812gmail-m_-2103412527043690363gmail-m_-57149771548578759=
69gmail-m_-8853563024957483338gmail-m_-3552897844207147919gmail-m_535196241=
1090118364gmail-m_6568291093109405877gmail-m_-428759268849965292moz-txt-lin=
k-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:gw DOT ruch AT yahoo DOT com" target=3D"_blank">gw.ruch@=
yahoo.com</a>)
[via <a class=3D"gmail-m_-6293932441749985812gmai=
l-m_-2103412527043690363gmail-m_-5714977154857875969gmail-m_-88535630249574=
83338gmail-m_-3552897844207147919gmail-m_5351962411090118364gmail-m_6568291=
093109405877gmail-m_-428759268849965292moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"ma=
ilto:geda-help AT delorie DOT com" target=3D"_blank">geda-help AT delorie DOT com</a>]
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<p>Torben:</p>
<p>You should not have to use <i><b>sudo</b></i>
<i><b>(SuperUser DO) </b></i>as this
elevates you from your user level (torben)
to root user. <br>
</p>
<p>This may be causing issues where you are
saving files as user <i><b>torben</b></i>,
but when you become root, root's directory
may be checked for the file.</p>
<p>sudo is a dangerous tool and is meant to be
used for specific uses such as installing
software.?? Using it excessively can cause a
typo to have catastrophic consequences.??
When your computer is configured correctly
you should be able to run <i><b>gschem</b></i>
or <i><b>pcb</b></i> (etc.) with your own
user (torben) level privileges.</p>
<p>Hope this helps.<br>
</p>
<div class=3D"gmail-m_-6293932441749985812gmail-m=
_-2103412527043690363gmail-m_-5714977154857875969gmail-m_-88535630249574833=
38gmail-m_-3552897844207147919gmail-m_5351962411090118364gmail-m_6568291093=
109405877gmail-m_-428759268849965292moz-cite-prefix">On
7/30/19 7:11 AM, Torben Friis (<a class=3D"gmai=
l-m_-6293932441749985812gmail-m_-2103412527043690363gmail-m_-57149771548578=
75969gmail-m_-8853563024957483338gmail-m_-3552897844207147919gmail-m_535196=
2411090118364gmail-m_6568291093109405877gmail-m_-428759268849965292moz-txt-=
link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:friistf AT gmail DOT com" target=3D"_blank">friis=
tf AT gmail DOT com</a>)
[via <a class=3D"gmail-m_-6293932441749985812gm=
ail-m_-2103412527043690363gmail-m_-5714977154857875969gmail-m_-885356302495=
7483338gmail-m_-3552897844207147919gmail-m_5351962411090118364gmail-m_65682=
91093109405877gmail-m_-428759268849965292moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"=
mailto:geda-help AT delorie DOT com" target=3D"_blank">geda-help AT delorie DOT com</a>]
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fa=
mily:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large">Hi,</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fa=
mily:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large">Is
Wilson's tutorial up-to-date? I run:<br=
>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fa=
mily:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large"><br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fa=
mily:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large">torben AT torben-Aspire-E5-77=
3G:~/gaf/myproject3$
sudo gsch2pcb project</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fa=
mily:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large"><br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fa=
mily:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large">
with 2 resistors and get:<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fa=
mily:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large">--------------------------=
--------<br>
Done processing.?? Work performed:<br>
2 file elements and 0 m4 elements added
to board.pcb.<br>
<br>
Next step:<br>
1.?? Run pcb on your file board.pcb.<br>
?? ?? You will find all your footprints
in a bundle ready for you to place<br>
?? ?? or disperse with "Select ->
Disperse all elements" in PCB.<br>
<br>
2.?? From within PCB, select "File -&g=
t;
Load netlist file" and select <br>
?? ?? <a href=3D"http://board.net" target=
=3D"_blank">board.net</a>
to load the netlist.<br>
<br>
3.?? From within PCB, enter<br>
<br>
?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ??:ExecuteFile(board.cmd)<br=
>
<br>
?? ?? to propagate the pin names of all
footprints to the layout.<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fa=
mily:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large"><br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fa=
mily:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large">I
then run:<br>
torben AT torben-Aspire-E5-773G:~/gaf/myproject3$ sudo pcb board.pcb<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fa=
mily:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large"><br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fa=
mily:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large">and
get:<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fa=
mily:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large">File
'board.pcb' has no font information=
,
using default font<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fa=
mily:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large">??<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fa=
mily:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large">I
then get the rather empty looking screen
shown attached.</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fa=
mily:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large"><br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fa=
mily:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large">I
can disperse the components and run the
netlist, but when I run</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fa=
mily:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large"><br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fa=
mily:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large">sudo
:ExecuteFile(board.cmd) (or
:ExecuteFile(board.cmd))</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fa=
mily:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large">??nothing
happens</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fa=
mily:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large"><br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fa=
mily:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large">Incidentally,
when I run:</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fa=
mily:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large"><br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fa=
mily:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large">sudo
gschem one.sch</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fa=
mily:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large"><br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fa=
mily:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large">the
curser moves to the next line. It looks
as if some input is expected. What?<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fa=
mily:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large"><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,s=
ans-serif;font-size:large" class=3D"gmail_default">Can anyone help?</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,s=
ans-serif;font-size:large" class=3D"gmail_default">best regards</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,s=
ans-serif;font-size:large" class=3D"gmail_default">torben</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu,
Feb 14, 2019 at 3:04 PM Torben Friis
<<a href=3D"mailto:friistf AT gmail DOT com" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">friistf AT gmail DOT com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"ma=
rgin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:=
1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon=
t-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large">Hi
,</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon=
t-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large">I
have been looking fo the above
element, but I cannot find it. I
have been looking for .../newlib and
found it in two places, but neither
one appeared to provide it.</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon=
t-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large">Is
there anywhere else I can look for
it?</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon=
t-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large">torben<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div>
--000000000000df81330590b43843--
- Raw text -