Mail Archives: djgpp/2001/10/20/05:41:45
| X-Originating-IP: | [206.106.67.40]
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| From: | "Clayton Weaver" <vgdesigner AT hotmail DOT com>
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| To: | djgpp AT delorie DOT com
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| Subject: | Re: Making C++ little easier to beginners...
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| Date: | Sat, 20 Oct 2001 04:37:30 -0500
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| Mime-Version: | 1.0
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| Message-ID: | <F153QvnbEG10Gai4omR000005b8@hotmail.com>
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| X-OriginalArrivalTime: | 20 Oct 2001 09:37:30.0985 (UTC) FILETIME=[D6D57590:01C1594A]
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| Reply-To: | djgpp AT delorie DOT com
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<html><div style='background-color:'>
<DIV>Well Mr. Fischer, I'm glad to see that you weren't trying to provide encouragement to get possible employees for your company because if your goal was that you failed badly. I'm a little curious what your company makes software or hardware? If it's software what kind? Utility software like Microsoft Notepad, Microsoft Word, Corel Draw, 3D Studio MAX? Or does the company develop video game software like Mortal Kombat, Final Fantasy VII, Parasite Eve, Parasite Eve II?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I thought experts in C++ were supposed to be willing to help beginners with advice like on where to get good books, good tutorials online, and things like that? Now like I was saying a second ago, you did do a bad job at any form of encouragement for getting possible future employees. After all expert C++ programmers all started out as C++ beginners (you included Mr. Fischer) and slowly worked their way up to become or be considered C++ experts. I don't know about anyone else that is a beginner to C++ on this forum, but I have to congratulate you Mr. Fischer on single handedly screwing your company out of possible employees because once the beginners on this mailing list become experts I bet they won't be interested in going to your company because they will remember what you said and wouldn't want to be a part of any team with you in it. The main reason for this is because you just made yourself appear to have a holier than thou attitude toward beginners.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I've been programming in C++ for almost two years now and I'm still learning. Thankfully I realize something that you evidentally don't, there is no such thing as an expert in C++ because you can never truely know all there is to know about C++ since new methods of doing things are constantly being thought of. Oh and a good reason I won't work for your company is that I own my own video game developer company online and I do open source games for beginner video game programmers to learn from. I felt the site needed a new look so it is down, but I hope to have it up soon for those interested in downloading the games to learn video game production. I put it on a free server to save me from having to worry about paying monthly fees right now because I'm about to get married, but here's the site: <A href="http://www.geocities.com/destined_entertainment/index.html">http://www.geocities.com/destined_entertainment/index.html</A> for those who want to see what the company is about (as soon as I get it up all the way, unfortunately, all that is up right now is the main page saying under construction). </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Advantage of the gaming industry is I've got around fifty contacts that are willing to help me whenever I need it to improve my programming skills by offering their advance, experience, and books or tutorials to help me learn more. Now we will get into typing and grammar...I don't care if I made any typos, grammar mistakes, or run-ons, but I just love this posting. Here's what I mean:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Traveler wrote:</DIV>
<DIV> I apologize the trouble that my typo "if(x == 10 && x == 10)" has caused (What we learn from this ? Never, ever send a message when you are tired ). </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Fischer responded:</DIV>
<DIV> Were you tired when you wrote this? </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>But yet in an earlier reply Fischer wrote this:</DIV>
<DIV> "Where I work we're are complete uninterested in making C++ easier for beginners. We don't hire beginners. Your plan is as daft as proposing that knives be dulled to protect beginners." </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Complete uninterested instead of "completely uninterested"? Got to love holier than thou hypocrites don't you. But Traveler was looking for pointers and advice on what he believed was a good idea, but because people on this mailing list believed other wise they felt it necessary to bite his head off for it instead of just simply pointing out the difficulties in the idea he proposed. Traveler as a beginner in C++ I do prefer the way the programming language is now and I feel that your proposal would just make learning it harder than it already is, but that is just how I feel about it. You should go with whatever you prefer and if the compiler you are using (in this case DJGPP) doesn't match what your looking for then get a different one. For example, I was looking for a compiler that would let me develop games on Windows as well as DOS and DJGPP was the first compiler I found. The downfall was that it was mainly DOS oriented and didn't meet my requirements so I asked around and eventually changed to the MinGW32 (Minimalist Gnu for Windows 32) compiler and now with the help of the Allegro Game Programming Library and the allegro mailing lists I'm slowly getting into game programming for Windows 95/98/2000. Don't get me wrong, DJGPP is a great compiler, but because of my requirements I was forced to seek another freeware compiler, which I found in MinGW32 at <A href="http://www.mingw.org">http://www.mingw.org</A> and as for the Allegro Game Programming Library the site for that is (in case you don't know) <A href="http://www.talula.demon.co.uk/allegro/index.on.html">http://www.talula.demon.co.uk/allegro/index.on.html</A> or you can go to Allegro.CC at <A href="http://www.allegro.cc">http://www.allegro.cc</A> and now I'm programming small games that I haven't published because they are just for me to get used to Allegro and MinGW32.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Oh and if you prefer an IDE for MinGW32 to where it has a graphical setup like Microsoft Visual C++ then go here <A href="http://www.bloodshed.net">http://www.bloodshed.net</A> because it's the home page for Dev-C++ which is just an IDE for MinGW32. Well I've rambled enough so I'll stop now.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>--Clayton Weaver </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>----Original Message Follows----
<DIV></DIV>From: rfischer AT bolt DOT sonic DOT net (Ray Fischer)
<DIV></DIV>Reply-To: djgpp AT delorie DOT com
<DIV></DIV>To: djgpp AT delorie DOT com
<DIV></DIV>Subject: Re: Making C++ little easier to beginners...
<DIV></DIV>Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 23:01:49 GMT
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>Traveler<TRAVELER AT NETTI DOT FI> wrote:
<DIV></DIV>>Let me make few things clear:
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>1) I apologize the trouble that my typo "if(x == 10 && x == 10)" has caused (What
<DIV></DIV>>we learn from this ? Never, ever send a message when you are tired ).
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>Were you tired when you wrote this?
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>2) Lot of criticism was that my little helper was not "correct" C/C++.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>No, that it is _bad_ C++.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> Is it so that the so called "O mighty" standard of C++ prevents me to write
<DIV></DIV>>this kind of code ?
<DIV></DIV>> I dont thinks so...
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>Go right ahead. Just don't get expect to get a job writing
<DIV></DIV>that kind of code.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> So what !!!!????
<DIV></DIV>> If you like the things that I sometimes offer then use it, if not then dont
<DIV></DIV>>use it ! It´s as easy as that !
<DIV></DIV>> What I do is to offer ALTERNATIVES.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>So what? Any halfwit can play with macros. Notice that nobody
<DIV></DIV>does so.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>3) Ray Fischer, you writed:
<DIV></DIV>> "Where I work we're are complete uninterested in making C++ easier
<DIV></DIV>> for beginners. We don't hire beginners. Your plan is as daft as
<DIV></DIV>> proposing that knives be dulled to protect beginners."
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> Well, that was a very encouraging !
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>It wasn't meant to be.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> Frankly, I don't care where you work or what kind of projects you currently do.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>Apparently you don't care about employment either.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>You also wrote:
<DIV></DIV>>"Well guess what: "Boolean algebra" books don't count. Not in the slightest.
<DIV></DIV>>What does count is the C++ standard. When you learn something about C++ and
<DIV></DIV>>programming you'll realize as much yourself."
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Take a look at the following part and think again...also read the part 2 again
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>No. It's still pointless crap.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>--
<DIV></DIV>Ray Fischer When you look long into an abyss, the abyss also looks
<DIV></DIV>rfischer AT sonic DOT net into you -- Nietzsche
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