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Mail Archives: djgpp/1996/12/02/20:41:39

From: Elliott Oti <e DOT oti AT stud DOT warande DOT ruu DOT nl>
Newsgroups: comp.os.msdos.djgpp
Subject: Re: Ideas for DJGPP.
Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 08:40:16 -0800
Organization: Academic Computer Centre Utrecht, (ACCU)
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Message-ID: <32A30670.3CA9@stud.warande.ruu.nl>
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To: djgpp AT delorie DOT com
DJ-Gateway: from newsgroup comp.os.msdos.djgpp

Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> 
> On Sun, 1 Dec 1996, Erik Max Francis wrote:
> 
> > Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> >
> > > Can you please tell in detail what are the issues that make DJGPP
> > > confusing for a newcomer?  Thanks.
> >
> > Most beginning are confused by command-line interfaces and a lack of an
> > integrated development environment.
> 
> You mean, those of them who don't want to know anything about the
> compiler are confused when they need to actually learn how it should
> be called? ;-)

With all respect for you guys, it's easy to to forget how confusing learning
C can be. If you cut your teeth on C64 assembler as a kid and moved on to
Turbo Pascal as a teenager, learning C is a breeze. It's also easy to learn
it as a CS major, with lots of feedback from friends and costudents, and
access to the right books, but picture this: 

you're an earnest kid, you wanna learn C, you haven't the faintest
idea of what the difference is between a compiler,linker,or preprocessor,
you have only the foggiest idea of what the difference is between a header
file and a C file, and your buddies don't even know (and don't care) what
"C" is (so they can't help you out); you didn't know that libraries
have to be linked if their header file's functions are used; you
have no idea that including a header file twice without the usual 
#ifndef __SHIT_H_ stuff will lead to loads of errors ...

And believe me, most beginner's books on C are no help in such matters;
they usually assume QuickC or Turbo C, and all you need to do to get
a program to compile and run is a simple Ctrl-F9 or so. Libraries
are automatically linked, dependencies are pre-checked, error reports place
the cursor on the offending line ... most beginner's books *assume* all 
this and *don't* tell you all the stuff we all take for granted now.

So I don't think it's silly when a beginner to C faithfully types in the
example prog from the book and can't get it to compile under djgpp,
and is confused by cryptic messages like "dpmi host not found", "MK_FP
undefined function","cannot run 16-bit program" etc. Would you blame
him/her for preferring Turbo C which lets you get on with learning the
language without all that extra crap?

Rhide is an excellent step in the direction of making djgpp beginner-friendly,
but guys, don't mock newbies who find the command line environment
confusing because it *is*.

Elliott.

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