From:	Damian Yerrick <MYNAMEISd_yerrick AT hotmail DOT comNO2CANNEDHAM>
Newsgroups:	comp.os.msdos.djgpp
Subject:	Re: <Damian Y> Re: It's back, but the ...
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NNTP-Posting-Date:	Tue, 15 Feb 2000 14:52:25 GMT
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Date:	Tue, 15 Feb 2000 14:52:25 GMT
To:	djgpp AT delorie DOT com
DJ-Gateway:	from newsgroup comp.os.msdos.djgpp
Reply-To:	djgpp AT delorie DOT com

On Tue, 15 Feb 2000 04:17:07 GMT, "Andrew Jones"
<luminous-is AT home DOT com> wrote:

>Also, technically it is Sybase Watcom C/C++, not Powersoft anymore.
>Although this is irrelevent to your FAQ :)

Noted.

>> DJGPP, on the other hand, is a free C/C++ compiler that makes 32-bit
>> DOS binaries. DJGPP programs often come with a DOS extender
>> called CWSDPMI, but a compatible extender is built into Windows 3.1
>> and later.
>
>Windows 3.1 *Enhanced Mode*.  You might want to point this out.

Noted.

>And the GPL definition of "free" is definately not what the normal
>person thinks of free.

So how should I say it?  It's free in both senses (speech and beer).

>Also, it's not so much an extender that's built into Windows,
>it's a DPMI host.

Noted.

>> "Well, for me it is one factor - price. I cannot spend the hundreds
>> (or thousands) I'll need to pay in my local currency for Watcom."
>> (Stefan Viljoen <rylan AT intekom DOT com>)
>
>Watcom cost me $500 Canadian.  That's nowhere near "thousands".
>Hundreds yes, thousands, no.

Canadian dollars are an order of magnitude larger than
"my local currency."

>Also, DJGPP is known for Quake.  Watcom is known for DOZENS of games
>(well, maybe not that many, but lots!), as well as much other
>software.  System Commander comes to mind, and I've heard parts of
>OS/2 were compiled with Watcom.  It was also used by Novell for
>their DR-DOS.

Ouch.

>It seems to me that the only successful software ever written using
>DJGPP is Quake.

Damn successful.

>I'm not including libraries others have written (Allegro, they all
>scream, is successful), I'm talking about popular, well used software.

GCC was used for a popular OS (GNU/Linux).  Most of the Doom ports are
for DJGPP.

>And it seems to be a particularily difficult compiler for
>"newbies" to use and set up.

Just add two lines to your autoexec.bat and reboot.  We can't
control the fact that many users have the attention span of AOLers.

>Also, when Watcom was at its height, there was almost as much
>information available for it as there is for DJGPP.  Libraries,
>examples, documentation, all were in abundance.

Allegro works on Watcom too last time I checked.

>Portability may be wonderful for DJGPP, but consider that Watcom
>can target 16-bit real-mode DOS,

OK...

>32-bit protected-mode DOS,

Any better than DJGPP?

>Windows 3.x, Windows 9x, Windows NT,

The DJGPP add-on RSXNTDJ does this, and there are other
GCC ports (Cygwin and Mingw).

>QNX, Novel Netware, and (broken) ELF.

GCC does fixed ELF.

>DJGPP handles 32-bit protected mode DOS.

Better than any other compiler in its price range.

>> Version 3.931
>> works on mingw32, Linux, DJGPP, and even dreaded Watcom C++, Microsoft
>> Visual C++, and Borland C++Builder.
>
>I take particular offense to the use of "dreaded" and "Watcom C++"
>in the same sentence.  Are you sure you haven't misplaced the dreaded?
>Dreaded Microsoft Visual C++ sounds far more appropriate.

allegro works on
{
  mingw, linux, djgpp,
  unfree_compilers {watcom, msvc, borland}
}

Fixed.  I'm just biased against tools that are far out of my
price range and for which there are excellent free alternatives.
Now it's 
>> works on mingw32, Linux, DJGPP, Watcom C++, and even dreaded Microsoft
>> Visual C++ and Borland C++Builder.

>Watcom was, and IMHO still is, *the
>best* optimizing compiler available (for DOS at least).

Noted.  But have you tried PGCC lately?

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