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Message-ID:	<1728e74b-d3fa-4597-8374-d5aacfdae947@SystematicSW.ab.ca>
Date:	Fri, 18 Oct 2024 15:16:02 -0600
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Subject:	Re: Computer Science and sub-projects
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From:	Brian Inglis via Cygwin <cygwin AT cygwin DOT com>
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On 2024-10-18 13:51, Mark Aitchison via Cygwin wrote:
> On 19/10/24 07:08, Jim Garrison via Cygwin wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm gonna go with this is an unfixable problem. The quality of the workers is 
>>> for the most part so bad, you can't manager your way to a solution.
>>> Unfortunately, modern life requires way more code than the handful of 
>>> actually good programmers can hope to address.
>>>
>>
>> Having been a developer since the early 70s I agree, the problem is unfixable 
>> without a major breakthrough in understanding what makes a good developer.
>>
>> I have an analogy.  Coding is like playing the recorder...
> 
> Extending the analogy a bit: people need to play a musical instrument for quite 
> a while to do it well, and they need honest feedback (after they get to the 
> level of experience they can take it).
> 
> I think projects/mailing lists like this are pretty close to the essence of what 
> budding programmers need... decades ago someone doing Computer Science at 
> university probably was taking it because they were the type of person that had 
> already played around with a home computer for hours, and knew a bit about what 
> worked and what didn't, and lapped up the knowledge a formal course could 
> provide. They might even use spare computer time on the "big university 
> computer" to calculate pi for umpteen decimal places for fun.  For quite a while 
> now, I am sure, a large number of COSC students are there because somebody told 
> them they can earn good money, whether they are genuinely interested or not. And 
> to some extent educators cater to this by saying things like "web web design is 
> enough of a skill that you should be able to get a Computer Science degree for 
> choosing fonts the way the lecturer likes them, so it doesn't matter a graduate 
> cannot write even a Fizz-Buzz* program".
> 
> How about projects like cygwin work with universities to provide "junior" 
> versions of mailing lists with sub-projects that could be within the range of 
> students, so they get a feeling for collaboration, update-histories, style 
> standards, reading others' code, feedback from seasoned developers, etc.??

Problem is we are all volunteers on the project, so answers, replies, support, 
depend on whether anyone has enough spare time to do analysis or diagnosis and 
provide feedback, over what we have available to work on libraries, utilities, 
and/or packages.

Now if a university course wanted to use Cygwin as a base for teaching e.g. 
emulator development or distro engineering, anyone can jump in and get their 
hands dirty, but that may also be true for smaller Linux distros.

-- 
Take care. Thanks, Brian Inglis              Calgary, Alberta, Canada

La perfection est atteinte                   Perfection is achieved
non pas lorsqu'il n'y a plus rien à ajouter  not when there is no more to add
mais lorsqu'il n'y a plus rien à retirer     but when there is no more to cut
                                 -- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

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