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From:	Brian Inglis <Brian DOT Inglis AT SystematicSw DOT ab DOT ca>
Organization:	Systematic Software
Subject:	Re: Python for Windows reports wrong local time when run under Cygwin
	on Europe/Moscow TZ
Message-ID:	<02d5b40f-aa35-f56c-5c5c-b10780355e91@SystematicSw.ab.ca>
Date:	Wed, 9 Jun 2021 20:36:48 -0600
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On 2021-06-09 16:31, Keith Thompson via Cygwin wrote:
> [Sorry if the threading is messed up.  I don't subscribe, so I'm
> constructing this message from the web interface.  It should at least
> show up under the correct subject.]
> 
> Brian Inglis wrote:
>> On 2021-06-08 14:03, Mike Kaganski via Cygwin wrote:
>>> On 08.06.2021 16:04, L A Walsh wrote:
>>>> You might ask on a python list if anyone else has experienced
>>>> something similar with python or any other program.  I'm fairly sure
>>>> that neither MS nor cygwin design their OS with python in mind and
>>>> that it is python that is interacting funny when running under some
>>>> merge of both.  Have you asked the python people about this problem?
>>>> What did they suggest?
>>>
>>> FTR: filed https://bugs.python.org/issue44352.
>>
>> See Keith Thompson subthread and my reply with suggested fix:
>>
>> https://cygwin.com/pipermail/cygwin/2021-June/248692.html
>>
>> Windows does not recognize zoneinfo time zone identifiers in TZ only
>> base format POSIX TZ strings with three alphabetic character identifiers:
>>
>> https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/cpp/c-runtime-library/reference/tzset?view=msvc-160
>>
>> That assumes US switch date "rules": for all years up to current, or
>> just DST, and whether pre- or post-2007 is unstated!
>>
>> Otherwise it defaults to regional settings, used by Cygwin to map to
>> zoneinfo time zone identifiers, so if Python for Windows could clear TZ
>> before it is read by MSVCRT, it should DTRT.
>>
>> Windows does not recognize expanded POSIX TZ format strings with <>
>> quoted alphanumeric characters, "-", "+", and start and end dates/times:
>>
>> https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/basedefs/V1_chap08.html#bottom
>>
>> which make them usable outside of the US.
> 
> Summary: IMHO Cygwin should adapt its default TZ setting to work
> with Windows.
> 
> The suggestion is to modify Python for Windows so it can deal with
> the TZ format used by Cygwin.  I haven't used Python for Windows, but
> as far as I know it's unrelated to Cygwin; rather it, like Cygwin, is
> intended to work on top of Windows.  I'm not convinced it's appropriate
> to ask Python for Windows to make a change purely for the sake of
> interoperating with Cygwin, which many PfW users presumably aren't
> even using.
> 
> I've run into another application that has problems with Cygwin's
> settings of $TZ.  It was a internal test application that isn't
> going to change its timezone handling just for this problem.
> 
> The ideal solution would be for Windows to recognize TZ values like
> "America/Los_Angeles", but that's not likely to happen any time soon.
> 
> My suggestion, since Cygwin is supposed to interoperate with Windows,
> is one of the following:
> 
> - Cygwin should avoid setting TZ to a value that Windows doesn't recognize
>    (if I set TZ=PST8PDT, everything seems to work correctly); OR
> 
> - Cygwin shouldn't set TZ at all by default.  (I've updated my
>    $HOME/.bash_profile on Cygwin to unset TZ, and Cygwin commands seem
>    to work correctly with TZ unset); OR
> 
> - Cygwin, when invoking a non-Cygwin executable, should first either
>    unset TZ or translate it to a format that Windows will recognize.
>    I have no idea how difficult that would be.

Impossible to set Windows TZ usefully as it obeys unstated US DST rules 
(like posixrules, perhaps 2007+?), and may have limits on hour offset 
magnitudes.
MS libraries are stuck at POSIX 1996 and C 99 subset compatibility, but 
non-standard-conformant including which headers contain definitions:

	https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/cpp/c-runtime-library/compatibility?view=msvc-160

It may be possible to unset TZ when running non-Cygwin programs 
(possibly behind a CYGWIN env var setting e.g. winnotz) by adding TZ= to 
conv_envvars, and writing new helper functions env_tz_to_posix to call 
tzset and env_tz_to_win32 to remove TZ in:

	https://sourceware.org/git/?p=newlib-cygwin.git;f=winsup/cygwin/environ.cc;a=blob

What is the opinion on this from both Windows users and Cygwin patchers?

[I am one of those folks who like maximum POSIX/Linux compatibility from 
my environment and scripts, so maintain files/sym-/links like /run, 
/etc/timezone, /etc/localtime from local 0p_/zp_ postinstall scripts.]

-- 
Take care. Thanks, Brian Inglis, Calgary, Alberta, Canada

This email may be disturbing to some readers as it contains
too much technical detail. Reader discretion is advised.
[Data in binary units and prefixes, physical quantities in SI.]

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