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From:	Achim Gratz <Stromeko AT nexgo DOT de>
To:	cygwin AT cygwin DOT com
Subject:	Re: [PATCH] default ps -W process start time to system boot time when inaccessible, 0, -1
References:	<20190323034522 DOT 9688-1-Brian DOT Inglis AT SystematicSW DOT ab DOT ca> <87d0mh5x3u DOT fsf AT Rainer DOT invalid> <20190323183653 DOT GB3471 AT calimero DOT vinschen DOT de> <874l7tbfh6 DOT fsf AT Rainer DOT invalid> <4dfdfce1-245d-98fe-0c49-890ba8ec8dd4 AT SystematicSw DOT ab DOT ca> <874l7s65yv DOT fsf AT Rainer DOT invalid> <bacddf44-e71b-08a2-9e93-0da8d98cc540 AT SystematicSw DOT ab DOT ca> <871s2wm956 DOT fsf AT Rainer DOT invalid> <a5da8d2d-328e-f60b-3d4a-cfeffc8d7556 AT SystematicSw DOT ab DOT ca>
Date:	Sun, 24 Mar 2019 20:48:14 +0100
In-Reply-To:	<a5da8d2d-328e-f60b-3d4a-cfeffc8d7556@SystematicSw.ab.ca> (Brian Inglis's message of "Sun, 24 Mar 2019 13:16:26 -0600")
Message-ID:	<87wokokq9t.fsf@Rainer.invalid>
User-Agent:	Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux)
MIME-Version:	1.0

Brian Inglis writes:
> System processes with more recent process start times seem to make process times
> available to unelevated processes.
> Do startup system processes not have this info available to unelevated processes
> because of some security policy, timing, or possible race conditions with system
> process and performance monitor startup?

I don't understand why you keep talking exclusively about system startup
processes, these are just a subset (if a particularly stubborn one).

The process start time info is generally unavailable for an unprivileged
user (since it requires to "open" the process") except for processes
started under the same user account in the same user session.  There is
a security token (I forgot the name, but it's been posted on this list a
few days ago) you can add to user accounts so they get to see more (but
still not all) such information.  Certain types of information are only
accessible conditional on which groups you're a member of.  It also
varies a bit by Windows version and type of install, I think.  On top of
that come group policies.  So this is a lot more involved than just
system startup processes.

> System startup process start times appear to not be available to unelevated
> processes, so the process default value is zero.
> ISTM boot time is a better, more accurate, and useful default for those processes.

I still disagree, but then those are not the only processes that have
this issue.


Regards,
Achim.
-- 
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