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To:	cygwin AT cygwin DOT com
From:	"D. Boland" <daniel AT boland DOT nl>
Subject:	Re: vi stealing SYSTEM-owned permissions and ownership
Date:	Sun, 03 Nov 2013 19:41:46 +0100
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Message-ID:	<527698EA.16C8F45C@boland.nl>
References:	<5274F396 DOT A133C4CE AT boland DOT nl> <D7F32E9AFFD647458EB73E4ECBC03F3E AT NCC1701> <52757448 DOT 81FE6C53 AT boland DOT nl> <1139549616 DOT 20131103022620 AT mtu-net DOT ru>
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Andrey Repin wrote:
> 
> Greetings, D. Boland!
> 
> Your main problem is that you are trying to break into native Windows
> ACL system with Cygwin tools. And not only that, you also trying to
> wrest native ACLs into POSIX permissions, and expect native applications to
> work fine afterward.
> Which can be done theoretically, but in reality is a real big headache to
> maintain.

You are speaking of Cygwin as if it's some kind of quick hack. This is not the case.
Most of the tools are of the GNU software collection, which is high quality
software. ACL is also available on other Linux flavours, and they don't have to
"wrest" it into POSIX.

Also, one could say that ACL is a superset of the POSIX model. It uses POSIX's idea
of users, groups and others, but then offers the posibility to add more users and
groups for more elaborate schemes. The headache starts when one actually starts
using these extra posibilities.

> 
> If you truly want to show your students their Windows systems from the command
> line, I suggest you learn Windows command line.
> If not very robust, it is nonetheless rich, and allow for many operations
> normally performed from GUI, and some operations, that can not be done from
> GUI, either without much complication or at all.
> In the case mentioned below, the "net" tool should come in handy. As well
> as "sc" tool.
> 

I could just give my students an iMac, but these are not used in IT production
infrastructures. Windows (business/government) and Linux/Unix (ISP's) are.

The Windows command line is frustrating to work on. For instance, their
implementation of autocompleting with the tab-key sucks. In stead of really
simplifying and improving on DOS, MS comes up with more weird tools like PowerShell.
Now you have to be a programmer to use the command-line.

> Also, forcing someone to use vi over more sane editors is a torture which no
> one deserve.
> 

Haha, yes. But if my students have to administer remote production-machines, most of
the time they have no other option. I want them to succeed where others fail.

> Sorry for my terrible english...

No problem.

Sincerely,
Daniel


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