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Date:	Mon, 30 Jun 2003 00:32:55 +0100
From:	"Karsten M. Self" <kmself AT ix DOT netcom DOT com>
To:	cygwin AT cygwin DOT com
Subject:	Re: newbie shell-users howto, guide, cheatsheet, or reference?
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on Sun, Jun 29, 2003 at 06:30:24PM -0400, Christopher Faylor (cgf AT redhat DOT co=
m) wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 29, 2003 at 10:58:25PM +0100, Karsten M. Self wrote:
> >on Sun, Jun 29, 2003 at 11:26:14AM -0400, Christopher Faylor (cgf-rcm AT cy=
gwin.com) wrote:
> >> On Sun, Jun 29, 2003 at 10:12:32AM +0100, Karsten M. Self wrote:
> >> >on Fri, Jun 27, 2003 at 08:31:40PM +0100, Karsten M. Self (kmself AT ix.=
netcom.com) wrote:
> >
> >> >> Given my research and responses (both on and off list), I'll be
> >> >> putting together something shortly at http://twiki.iwethey.org/,
> >> >> which the Cygwin project will be free to use.
> >> >
> >> >For better or worse, started as:
> >> >
> >> >    http://twiki.iwethey.org/Main/CygwinEndUserQuickReference
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Peace.
> >>=20
> >> Rather than throwing your efforts out there and expecting "the cygwin
> >> project" to use them, why don't you investigate what is required to
> >> change the actual documentation?  A getting started section could be
> >> added to the actual documentation.
> >>=20
> >> As a general rule, your efforts will have a much wider audience and
> >> will benefit more people if you direct them towards the actual
> >> distribution rather than putting them on a personal web page.
> >
> >I've been through the existing Cygwin docs.  I don't see anything
> >specifically answering this need.
>=20
> Huh?  Addressing what need? =20

A guide to legacy MS Windows-centric users for using the Cygwin
environment, as opposed to installation or programmers guides (both
exist for Cygwin), or general Unix quickstart guides (covered
elsewhere).

> Did I say that there wasn't a need to address?  Is this really hard to
> understand? =20

Arguments are two doors down the hall.  Informed discussion is what I'm
after here.



> If you want people to benefit from your work, you try to get said work
> into the main cygwin web site and cygwin distribution.

Suggestion:  write you response after reading the entire message you're
replying too, and remove extraneous argumentative bits contradicted
subsequently, such as this one.



> >The page isn't a personal web page.  IWeThey is a group of tech
> >professionals who've been loosely associated for over five years, and
> >have run a number of web and other Internet-based services for much of
> >this time.  I've got a big hand in the TWiki.  It's not by any means
> >limited to me alone, only my product.
>=20
> As far as the cygwin project is concerned, it is a "personal web page".
> It is not located on the cygwin site.  It is not incorporated with the
> rest of the documentation.  The fact that there is a group of people
> associated with your effort is irrelevant.

Your skill in cutting off your nose to spite your face is admirable.

If you've viewed the site, rather than simply engaged in criticism to
someone for attempting to develop somethin useful, you'll note that use
of contents is permitted, with attribution and a copy of the copyright
notice.  I've already had docs developed at the site incorporated into
several other documents, most notably the Debian installation
instructions, based on my chroot install method.



> >The document I'm developing presently is just that -- a document in
> >development.  When it's at a stage I feel it's suitable for inclusion in
> >the core Cygwin docs, I'll contact whomever is appropriate and y'all can
> >cleave off a snapshot.  I'll likely continue to use the TWiki as a
> >development tool however, for extending this and related docs.
>=20
> Ok.  This is not what you said at first.  If you are willing to do some
> work to get this into the cygwin documentation, it will be appreciated.

How charmingly gracious of you.



> If you are expecting that you can just say "It's over there take it or
> leave it" then I suspect that this will always exist on a
> non-cygwin-project web site and we'll be seeing a lot of "I followed
> the directions over at..." followed by "The ...  site is not
> affiliated with the cygwin project.  We take no responsibility for the
> information there.  If you have questions please contact the people at
> ...  directly."

Fair enough. =20

However there are external docs available for Cygwin and numerous other
free software projects at various points on the Web.  In the case of
Cygwin, I'll not particularly Mike Erdely's sshd-on-Cygwin documentation
at http://tech.erdelynet.com/cygwin-sshd.html which is de-facto
authoritative on the topic.  You'd best deal with the fact that good
docs will emerge at various points, and do what you can to avail
yourself and/or the Cygwin project of them.

I'd further recommend you refresh yourself on beggers, choosers, gifts
offered, reading with comprehension, and demonstrating a modicum of
appreciation.

Peace.

--=20
Karsten M. Self <kmself AT ix DOT netcom DOT com>        http://kmself.home.netcom.com/
 What Part of "Gestalt" don't you understand?
   Keep software free.         Oppose the CBDTPA.         Kill S.2048 dead.
     http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html

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