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Mail Archives: geda-user/2013/03/27/18:24:02

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Message-ID: <51537169.9070702@estechnical.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 22:23:37 +0000
From: Ed Simmons <ed AT estechnical DOT co DOT uk>
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To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com
CC: Rob Butts <r DOT butts2 AT gmail DOT com>
Subject: Re: [geda-user] Magnetic Exercise Bike design with a stator and rotor
References: <CALSZ9goKGHmjNsw0K1P_DNWX=3bbUhff=wAgJzUEjRtxAnDKaA AT mail DOT gmail DOT com> <51505B7A DOT 8060202 AT ecosensory DOT com> <CALSZ9gp5utB1GLUPxRu_WTBKhFXMWSer6QPLquwHkTM1u0ukKA AT mail DOT gmail DOT com> <CALSZ9grq4mu78=xRroRPr7TM4Px_F5wByXZ28gPsiGf1E7+j=Q AT mail DOT gmail DOT com>
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You'd dissipate huge power in the coils trying to do it this way, I suspect.

Think of it more as an AC generator, you could use a full bridge 
rectifier for three phase and a simple (albeit hefty) constant current 
load, with a set point for the loading. Or if the analog CC load puts 
you off, a big MOSFET to short the rectified output to provide load, PWM 
drive this to vary the apparent load.

Either way, you have to get a good ratio to drive this, a few hundred 
rpm will be a minimum.

Hope that helps,

Ed

On 27/03/2013 21:15, Rob Butts wrote:
>
> I got a stator and flywheel and my problem is that the stator has a 4 
> wires coming from the stator and I don't have a schematic. There is a 
> green wire which is screwed to ground. The rest, a yellow, a white and 
> a red with blue stripped that all appear to go to different coils.
>
> I'm thinking these are three phases of an ac stator? My thought is to 
> have the pedals spinning a shaft that the flywheel is tied to. Then 
> I'd vary the votage going to each phase (dc voltage) which would 
> produce a magnetic field and resistance to the pedaling.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Rob
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 3:44 PM, Rob Butts <r DOT butts2 AT gmail DOT com 
> <mailto:r DOT butts2 AT gmail DOT com>> wrote:
>
>     I do understand how the magnetic field varies in the road bike
>     trainer and kind of understand the eddy current braking theory.  I
>     did get an eight coil stator and flywheel that I thought I'd
>     experiment with.  In the see also section of the eddy current
>     brake wiki page there is a link for Telma retarders and towards
>     the bottom of that page a section describing an electric retarder
>     which sounds exactly what I need and what I can use this $14
>     stator and flywheel for.  I think I just have to gear the speed of
>     the flywheel as high as I can which at this point is 5 to 1.
>
>
>     On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 10:13 AM, John Griessen
>     <john AT ecosensory DOT com <mailto:john AT ecosensory DOT com>> wrote:
>
>         On 03/24/2013 03:58 PM, Rob Butts wrote:
>
>             One plastic disc is fixed and the opposing plastic disk is
>             allowed to rotate 30 degrees providing the variable
>             magnetic field and
>             variable resistance.  I have not been able to simulate the
>             resistance I believe because I'm not providing the same
>             rotational
>             velocity of the aluminum disc.
>
>
>         Sounds like the out of alignment of the discs makes the field
>         vary from weak to strong.
>         To have strong fields, each magnet needs to be straight
>         across, (through the aluminum disc),
>         from another with same polarity direction.  Then induced
>         currents flowing in circles around the strong field area
>         counter subsequent motion by a force of their own.  I've never
>         quite grasped how that force stays local
>         to any place in the aluminum plate though...perhaps inertia of
>         electrons?  Else moving the path of the high
>         eddying current is more resistive than the eddy path?  It's
>         all so circular!  I feel like researching
>         and reading about it instead of doing my taxes...
>
>         What do you mean by simulate?  What velocity can you get?
>
>         Some decent velocity is needed for small inexpensive magnets.
>          I've seen a demo
>         of eddy current braking done with a pendulum hung plate, then
>         a slotted plate
>         for comparison, where the opposing magnets were very massive
>         and with iron looping
>         around to make a complete magnetic circle path with two short
>         gaps, ( where the aluminum
>         plate moved).  It would slow the pendulum in one stroke by
>         4/5ths.  It must have weighed
>         80 lbs.
>
>         An alternator will need velocity also.  Bicycle gearing can
>         get you velocity.
>
>
>


-- 
Ed Simmons
ed AT estechnical DOT co DOT uk
www.estechnical.co.uk


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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">You'd dissipate huge power in the coils
      trying to do it this way, I suspect.<br>
      <br>
      Think of it more as an AC generator, you could use a full bridge
      rectifier for three phase and a simple (albeit hefty) constant
      current load, with a set point for the loading. Or if the analog
      CC load puts you off, a big MOSFET to short the rectified output
      to provide load, PWM drive this to vary the apparent load. <br>
      <br>
      Either way, you have to get a good ratio to drive this, a few
      hundred rpm will be a minimum.<br>
      <br>
      Hope that helps,<br>
      <br>
      Ed<br>
      <br>
      On 27/03/2013 21:15, Rob Butts wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CALSZ9grq4mu78=xRroRPr7TM4Px_F5wByXZ28gPsiGf1E7+j=Q AT mail DOT gmail DOT com"
      type="cite"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">
      </font>
      <p><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman">I got a stator and
            flywheel and my problem is that the stator has a 4 wires
            coming from the stator and I
            don't have a schematic. There is a green wire which is
            screwed to ground. The
            rest, a yellow, a white and a red with blue stripped that
            all appear to go to
            different coils. </font></font></p>
      <font face="Times New Roman" size="3">
      </font>
      <p><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman">I'm
            thinking&nbsp;these&nbsp;are three phases of&nbsp;an&nbsp;ac&nbsp;stator? My thought
            is to have the pedals
            spinning a shaft that the flywheel is tied to. Then I'd vary
            the votage going
            to each phase (dc voltage) which would produce a magnetic
            field and&nbsp;resistance to the pedaling.</font></font></p>
      <font face="Times New Roman" size="3">
      </font>
      <p><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman">Any&nbsp;thoughts?</font></font></p>
      <font face="Times New Roman" size="3">
      </font>
      <p><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman">Thanks,</font></font></p>
      <font face="Times New Roman" size="3">
      </font>
      <p><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman">Rob</font></font></p>
      <br>
      <br>
      <div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 3:44 PM, Rob
        Butts <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="mailto:r DOT butts2 AT gmail DOT com" target="_blank">r DOT butts2 AT gmail DOT com</a>&gt;</span>
        wrote:<br>
        <blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"
          class="gmail_quote">I do&nbsp;understand how the magnetic field
          varies in the road bike trainer and kind of understand the
          eddy current braking theory.&nbsp; I did get an eight coil stator
          and flywheel that I thought I'd experiment with.&nbsp; In the see
          also section of the eddy current brake wiki page there is a
          link for Telma retarders and towards the bottom of that page a
          section describing an electric retarder which sounds exactly
          what I need and what I can use this $14 stator and flywheel
          for.&nbsp; I think I just have to gear the speed of the flywheel as
          high as I can which at this point is 5 to 1.
          <div class="HOEnZb">
            <div class="h5"><br>
              <br>
              <div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 10:13 AM,
                John Griessen <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a
                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:john AT ecosensory DOT com" target="_blank">john AT ecosensory DOT com</a>&gt;</span>
                wrote:<br>
                <blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"
                  class="gmail_quote">
                  <div>On 03/24/2013 03:58 PM, Rob Butts wrote:<br>
                    <blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"
                      class="gmail_quote">
                      One plastic disc is fixed and the opposing plastic
                      disk is allowed to rotate 30 degrees providing the
                      variable magnetic field and<br>
                      variable resistance. &nbsp;I have not been able to
                      simulate the resistance I believe because I'm not
                      providing the same rotational<br>
                      velocity of the aluminum disc.<br>
                    </blockquote>
                    <br>
                  </div>
                  Sounds like the out of alignment of the discs makes
                  the field vary from weak to strong.<br>
                  To have strong fields, each magnet needs to be
                  straight across, (through the aluminum disc),<br>
                  from another with same polarity direction. &nbsp;Then
                  induced currents flowing in circles around the strong
                  field area<br>
                  counter subsequent motion by a force of their own.
                  &nbsp;I've never quite grasped how that force stays local<br>
                  to any place in the aluminum plate though...perhaps
                  inertia of electrons? &nbsp;Else moving the path of the
                  high<br>
                  eddying current is more resistive than the eddy path?
                  &nbsp;It's all so circular! &nbsp;I feel like researching<br>
                  and reading about it instead of doing my taxes...<br>
                  <br>
                  What do you mean by simulate? &nbsp;What velocity can you
                  get?<br>
                  <br>
                  Some decent velocity is needed for small inexpensive
                  magnets. &nbsp;I've seen a demo<br>
                  of eddy current braking done with a pendulum hung
                  plate, then a slotted plate<br>
                  for comparison, where the opposing magnets were very
                  massive and with iron looping<br>
                  around to make a complete magnetic circle path with
                  two short gaps, ( where the aluminum<br>
                  plate moved). &nbsp;It would slow the pendulum in one
                  stroke by 4/5ths. &nbsp;It must have weighed<br>
                  80 lbs.<br>
                  <br>
                  An alternator will need velocity also. &nbsp;Bicycle
                  gearing can get you velocity.<br>
                </blockquote>
              </div>
              <br>
            </div>
          </div>
        </blockquote>
      </div>
      <br>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <br>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
Ed Simmons
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ed AT estechnical DOT co DOT uk">ed AT estechnical DOT co DOT uk</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.estechnical.co.uk">www.estechnical.co.uk</a></pre>
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