Mail Archives: djgpp/1999/04/12/10:16:03
Eli Zaretskii <eliz AT is DOT elta DOT co DOT il> wrote:
> On Sat, 10 Apr 1999, Arron Shutt wrote:
>
> > I've lost count the number of people saying that Linux is hard to use,
>
> No offense, but IMHO this is a baloney. Linux *installation* might
> need some improvements, especially if you happen to own some obscure
> hardware in your box, but that's about all. After Linux is installed,
> it is as user-friendly (or user-unfriendly) as Windows. The GUI is
> there for those who need it. So where's the problem?
Compare the situation of somebody that talks spanish and needs accents (I
guess you know very well about internationalization porblems):
DOS/Windows: The installer makes all the work.
Linux: 64Kb of HOWTO explaining how to hack your box to get bash, mc, etc.
more or less working using ISO-8859-1 fonts (what is supposed to use Linux
after all, but just lies) and don't talk about keyboard.
Installation needs a lot of improvements.
Also: Linux console is a hack of the obsolete UNIX console, and this hack is
half usable. A major work is needed to enhance it. I can't beleive a ncurses
application can be slower than a GUI application. Or that you can't get all
the keyboard combinations from curses because they must follow an AT&T System
V standard.
Linux needs a lot of advance in the keyboard/screen stuff, and these things
should be provided by the kernel. Example: Somebody had the brilliant idea of
the /dev/vcsaN devices to directly use the screen but:
1) They failed to provide a good mechanism to know how the screen is encoded
(you must do hacks that can easilly change from kernel to kernel).
2) If an user can access this device can do it even when is loged from
telnet, I know that's a problem with normal rights found in UNIX, but here
the kernel should allow acces to it only if the user have rights and if the
user is in the console. Otherwise that's dangerous to use.
> Some say that solving problems is hard. But it is also hard with
> Windows: Linux is about as complex as Windows is, so solving problems
> is also about as hard.
Yes, looks like people thinks that icons make the problems easier to solve.
> The difference is that while with Linux you can dig deep enough to
> find out everything (since the sources are there to look and hack),
> with Windows you are stuck, unless you have some friendly guru around
> (I know: people from the entire department run to me when they have
> any problems ;-).
Y know about it.
> Some say that Linux comes without tech support, so if you have an
> unsolvable problem, you have nobody to turn to. Now, *that's* a joke!
> I would really like to know what people do when they have unsolvable
> problems with Windows. Do they sue Microsoft?
Worst, if you have an OEM version you paid for nothing because you don't have
access to the tech support even when they know a workaround.
> The truth is that with Linux, you will probably have a work-around by
> the end of the day, and a bugfix by the end of the week. This forum
> is an apt example of the *true* tech support in the free software
> world.
>
> So I really am at a loss why people keep saying that Linux is
> user-unfriendly. I guess somebody will have to explain this to me.
People needs some help to use Linux and no help to use Windows (I talk about
simply installing and doing a minimal thing). Why? I guess is part of the
user interface. I don't know the exact reason, but you can't deny it! Eli I
know the advantages of Linux but is not friendly at all, people with DOS and
programming background can use Linux, but I can't imagine my father trying to
even install Linux. (He is a lawyer ;-))
> > Since DJ was interesting
> > in selling a package to schools, then making Linux easier to use will
> > obviously do nothing but make that task easier.
>
> Would you please explain why do you think schools need Linux? Why
> isn't it enough to have DJGPP on DOS or Windows? I don't think
> schools go as far as writing GUI programs, so it shouldn't matter
> which interface they have.
I agree.
> > An on-line tutorial.
>
> If this is a part of the ``Linux is not user-friendly'' argument, I
> would ask where's the tutorial for Windows? There aren't any.
I think this thread is getting bad....
If I remmeber OK the first thing Windows asks after installing is if you want
to run the tutorial and it explains all the basic operation, starting from
what the mouse is (totally ridiculous because you need to use the GUI during
the installation ;-)
At least Win3.1 did it.
> > Disk tools similar to PC-Tools or such.
>
> Linux already has several of these, like the Midnight Commander
> (available in DJGPP port as well, btw). And Emacs includes a built-in
> file manager.
Also mc is available as a Gnome application that is almost a clon of the
"Windows Explorer" (not IE, the one from OSR1 and OSR2).
A clon of Xtree is called Ytree, so I think there are enough file managers.
Perhaps mc needs to be more compatible with nc and vc (perhaps a
compatibility mode could be added).
> > The only problem I can see is that some companies tend to go for a
> > 'Total Microsoft Solution' (as has my own office)
>
> The real problem with the Microsoft influence is that people are
> required to produce files that are compatible with Microsoft
> products. For example, Word file format is quickly becoming the
> de-facto standard for exchanging documents, at least in large
> corporations.
And here is used by the government! You get information from other parts
(superior departments) in the Word 8.0 format (Office 97). So you don't only
need some soft able to load Word texts but also one that supports the last
release (Wordperfect 8 works if no graphics are used).
> Since applications is the key to success, any solution that wants to
> replace Microsoft's bug-ware needs to address this issue. For
> example, if you come up with a better word processor, you must to be
> able to import Word documents and export files in format that Word can
> import (not necessarily the Word .doc format). *This* is (IMHO) the
> real challenge for those who want to promote free software.
I agree. But a smooth installation process is also another important point,
but I don't see it too much related to the djgpp's future.
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